Client has a house from 1992 and is not sure if he has clips or wraps. I will post a link to this message board so he can see your opinions. Please help if you can to ease his mind. I will not give my opinion as I do not wish to affect your responses.
Have any of you been able to give a 1992 house the wrap credit or do they get the clip rating?
Again I am sure of my response but I would like your honest opinions for this customer so I WILL NOT STATE WHAT i MARKED HIS HOUSE.
sry bout the caps. We are speaking only in reference to the current wind mitigation form OIR 1802 rev 2/10
Here is a picture from his report. This customer is quite concerned so please let him know what you think.
If you cannot tell by the photos please give an educated guess based on the appearance of the strap and from the year built.
llosciale
(Lawrence Losciale, HI 83, CBC022116, CPC0573)
3
Mike,
The year built has nothing to do with weather it is a strap. It is or it isn’t.
I built my home in 1980 and it has straps.
The questions are:
Is it embeded/attached properly? Is it nailed properly? Is it within 1/4 " of the truss or properly blocked if not? Does it wrap over? Is it nailed on the other side?
Come on Mike you know these things, couldn’t you explain it to the customer?
Lame picture. Manny had a house in the early sixties that had nice single wraps last week. I would need clear photos of both sides of that strap to offer my opinion.
Ok. forget about it then. To me it is obvious. but if you all do not fee the same then oh well.
Thanks anyhow for checking it out.
Lawrence,
I have explained it to him and his old form said something different than mine and a roofer that I do not think saw it says different but I am 100% sure that what I marked is correct I just wanted to put his mind at ease without influencing you guys opinions.
Thanks to all who participated.
I have yet to see one from that era or before that meet the requirements of 3 nails on one side and one on the other. But that is just me. I would like to see them if Eric and Manny have the time please post them at your convenience.
Based on the picture shown I would mark clip. I only see two nails, and until they change the form, that is what they are going to give him, unless of course, they decide that the strap is embedded too far from the truss.
Not a very good picture. You need to try to get clearer pictures and both sides. The year built has nothing to do with it. I have seen many older home that have single wraps. If your picture was better then the owner couldnt question it.
Although I had one that emailed our office saying thanks for the report but I have wraps not clips. My office checked the pictures and it was a clip (and not a single wrap with 2 nails but an actually clip).
We did a wind mit for a client who recently (before our wind mit) had Citizens do a reinspection due to a wind mit completed 2 to 3 years ago (old form…not our company). Anyway, during the reinspection, the inspector decided to mark “toe nail” for roof-to-wall attachment. His decision was based solely on his belief that the strap (which met the definition of “single wrap” on the 1802) had too much rust on it. After Citizens took his roof-to-wall credit away, the client contacted us to complete a wind mit. We did and, in our opinion, the rust appeared to be surface rust only. We marked “single wraps” and submitted the wind mit to the insurance company. It’s still too soon to know how Citizens will handle our report.
I am marking other and explaining why. That gives the customer the benefit of the doubt and forces the underwriter to make the choice of what to allow. The wrap is not a clip it is a wrap with two nails on one side and (maybe) one on the other.
I don’t call wraps clips or clips toe nails. It is what it is and if it fails to meet the installation requirements spelled out in the form then it is other with a desciption. Nothing on that form advises us to mark to a downgraded methodology when the installation varies from the norm. Same thing goes if the strap is embedded greater than a specified distance off the truss.
Looks like some of these issues may be addressed in the newer/next version of the form. Until then there is NO official way to address these issues (no disrespect to those who teach courses or others who may not agree with my opinion) hopefully that will change.
The photos are not of the straps I was referring to (long story short…I won’t have access to them today) but they are similar to the ones I was talking about. I posted these photos because 1. the amount of rust on the straps 2. two nails on each side (4 nails total) and 3. the distance away from the truss. So…too much rust? Incorrect nailing pattern? Too far from the truss? I’ve already finished the wind mit report and sent it in but, just curious, how would you mark the 1802?
I would mark same as Brian stated above–marking other and stating why. Form states needs 3,1 nailing and this has 2,2. Rust is what it is, not relevant for this. Distance from the truss on the current form is not relevant either.
The jury is still out on the 3 and 1 rule. If that truss has 4 nails in it, I’ll mark it as a wrap. The rust looks like normal surface rust. The spacing, while not passing a code inspection, will not reflect on the 1802. I have had spacing up to 2" or 3" before and decided to mark “other” since that is a clear structural defect.
I haven’t had a lot of feedback on what happens to the policy when marking “other”, but I would say most underwriters default back to the weakest rating. JMHO
