That was the biggest issue we faced here. When they announced that we would be licensed in May 0f 2009 we had until September of 2009 to get our ducks in a row. They announced only two educators that they were going to use for schooling. They said that more would be added in time. It did not matter if you had more experience than everyone else. It did not matter if you had been inspecting for 20-25-30 years. You needed the education requirement or a CMI-RHI designation. We lost a lot of older inspectors that were on the edge of retirement because of this. They didn’t want to pay $1000.00 for the CMI and school was not an option.
Did any one challenge this in court and if yes what happened .
I think a good lawyer could show how biased this was.
I think too many precedents have been established like Electricians ,auto mechanics and lathers, Plasters and others all where grandfathered in Ontario.
I suspect Ontario won’t be much different than Alberta. Membership in InterNACHI will get you free access to the courses required to apply for a license. CMI will get you grandfathered. (You pick your path). This worked well in Alberta and I think it is reasonable. Don’t you?
Nick, you are right, but are not telling the whole story. In Alberta, AlbertaACHI with a huge push from Vern Mitchinson, managed to get the CCHI designation accepted.
Here in Ontario we adopted the CCHI program, and augmented it with extra components that are in the proposals to the MCS.
Those InterNACHI members who can provide the relevant requirements for the CCHI in Ontario will have a fair shot at being transitioned in to the Licensing program too.
Let no-one believe this is an easy way in, we feel that the CMI is still the best indication that someone has the skills and education to call themselves a Professional Home Inspector, but realise there are a lot of inspectors out there who are just as dedicated, just as skilled and just as passionate about their profession, but do not have the hours or years to attain the CMI.
The education for the CCHI can still be attained through InterNACHI for those that prefer on-line courses. We also recognise Carson Dunlop, online or college attained, or ASHI course. All non-CMI’s will have to undergo peer-reviews, and a proctored exam, plus the have to supply a police background check and have mandatory E&O & GL Insurance, but at least we believe, by aligning the CCHI with the proposals for regulation we have an equal fighting chance of proving those CCHI holders deserve to be transitioned in to licensing too.
For those who have asked and have not yet been given a reply, OntarioACHI membership DOES NOT give you access to the InterNACHI courses, or any of the InterNACHI benefits. For that you have to be a member of InterNACHI.
What OntarioACHI membership gives you is access to the CCHI program, the proctored examinations, an auditable peer-review and police background checking system, and a membership fee that is less than the savings we’ve managed to get for you for the E&O and GL insurance, in addition to the advocacy programs we are pushing with the Ministry of Consumer Services, CMHC, RECO and the WSIB.
In other words, joining both associations is a Win-win situation for you and the profession.
CCHI has not been approved in Ontario and just because you feel that it will does not negate that the CCHI is all InterNachi material. The mentoring portion was still done by CMI Inspectors.
Joining InterNachi will also get you to the level you need for Licensing without paying the big price to be a CCHI unless that is going to be provided as a bonus to be OntarioAchi when you qualify.
Kevin, you are right, the CCHI has not been approved in Ontario, but then again, nor has any other designation, CMI, NHI, RHI and anything.
Joining InterNACHI gets you the training, plus many, many other benefits. The CMI is Association independent, so is open to OAHI, PHPIC, CAHPI and ASHI, but requires 3 years of practice, many new inspectors don’t have that, yey still have the relevant training. Yes CMI’s will be doing the proctoring initially, because we know we can trust them to be honest and fair.
What CCHI and CMI both have in common, is that they’ve been accepted by another licensing province already, as has the CAHPI version of the RHI. I suspect the OAHI proved RHI (as opposed to the "I joined OAHI and therefore I am an RHI) member will be included in this illustrious list.
Where CCHI and CMI are different is that CCHI encourages Inspectors who don’t have the necessary requisites to get the CMI to finish the relevant training, do the proctored exams, get the the Insurance at a discount that gives them back their OntarioACHI membership and more and by fully aligned with the proposals given to the government.
We’re not saying tit’s better we’re just ensuring wee are putting together a facility that allows newbies to show they want to continue as Home Inspectors by getting a designation that meets the proposals, without having to fork out a fortune for training courses at a college.
There are 650+ InterNACHI Inspectors in Ontario, not all have the requirements for CMI, few of them are RHI or NHI certified. Those that aren’t, are unlikely to be, in the time leading up to the announcement of Licensing, which will be the cut-off date for transitioning in. (Going on past evidence of other regulated professions and trades.)
Are you saying we should just leave them out in the cold? Or do we have your permission to work with InterNACHI, as we have to date, to at least give them a fighting chance of continuing their profession after regulation comes in?
I would have to say Yes as then they will sign up to InterNachi. It is only through InterNachi that they will become successful. To provide them with a license by means of a proctored exam by your group and mentoring is to support disaster.
Since when was KEVIN’s permission needed?
Oh LOL a joke right?
Cheers
Accuracy required here Kevin, people futures depend on it. Joining InterNACHI WILL NOT get you to the level you need for licensing. Never has, never will, not in Ontario or in any state in the U.S. It is the education that is provided by InterNACHI, and the willingness of those who join to undertake it that gets them to that level. Then they have to prove it. The examination system on InterNACHI does not give that level of audit.
The CCHI program provides that audibility.
And as for the expense, joining OntarioACHI costs $135.60 per year. The mentoring will probably cost another $50-$60 depending upon what the CMI mentors charge. The peer review costs are priced the same way. So for what is likely to be less that $150 one off cost plus an annual membership cost of $135.60, plus the membership cost of InterNACHI for those who are sensible enough to realise that InterNACHI has way more benefits that just the education, then anyone who wants to push themselves to that level can get the CCHI.
Balance that against the savings of 12% on the E&O and GL premiums, (which will be mandatory when licensing comes in) as a member of OntarioACHI and a CCHI, which net the Inspector a reduction of between $330-$420 per year, or against the $5,000 cost for education through the OAHI, NHI or PHPIC model, and your “big price” evaporates.
Don’t forget the outrageous price for the licence $800.00 -1,000 per year
but that is only an estimate. It will get much higher…count on it!:twisted:
Cheers
Same thing was pulled with NHICC. I am happy that at least the prices do seem reasonable. You do not have as much support as you think you do with this license thing and when the time comes Nick will provide the exact same thing by means of whatever is needed in Ontario. Your proctored exams will be done the same way as it has been done everywhere by means of InterNet with a proctored area set up through Ben Gromicko.
However the mentoring is another issue that I think will need some thought as to who should do this.
Also I think when the time comes being InterNachi will net you a good 20% lower on your EO and GL.
It is only through hard work, dilligent training, good business sense and more than a bit of luck will they become successful Kevin. That is the same for all business. Just joining an association doesn’t make you successful. There are a lot of good Homies out there that are successful who have never joined InterNACHI and probably never will. what InterNACHI gives is a vehicle to better oneself (in most cases), access probably the richest, centralised library of great Home (and Commercial) inspection advice on the planet, and a marketing engine that has been built over a tried and tested period by marketing minds greater than you or me (well at least me).
The fact that some Inspectors join InterNACHI, and still fail shows that you need more than just a membership to make it. You need to have the savvy to use the tools Nick, Ben, Chris and all the others in the team at InterNACHI have provided to help you make it.
As their peers we are supposed to be providing positive solutions to help those that haven’t yet made it, not destroy every option, they might have, because of petty biases, and unfounded innuendos.
Being destructive against OntarioACHI, or any other organisation that is in my opinion, stupid. Not just for your own part, as you come across as a whiny little git, which I know from personal experience you are not, but for the profession as a whole.
We are all in our own way trying out best to help these poor buggers to survive in an ever more cutthroat market, where Government doesn’t seem interested in supporting the individual as much as it is in supporting to conglomerate and their own asses.
Working together we will achieve much more than trying to prove who can piss further than whom!
Yes granted you most likely can piss further than me Len.:mrgreen:
Kevin, Again, accuracy please.
We (OntarioACHI) went through a 3 month RFP process to get these deductions. We chose a broker of record (HUB Oakville), and we are continuing to work with them to get the prices down.
Saying InterNACHI will net you a 20% lower price on your E&O is horse crap!
First you have to measure the discounts apples-to-apples. Sure we could have got cheaper insurance. Totten, Lloyds of London, Sentinel were all cheaper, but the didn’t go to bat for the Homie on frivolous claims, Hub did. They didn’t provide the legal assist program through Lombard, Hub did. They weren’t prepared to look at the inclusions of other insurances and combined discounts for our members, Hub are.
The only way you are going to get a 20% discount is if InterNACHI self insures. I’m not sure InterNACHI wants to put up the collateral or take the risk to do that.
The Insurance market in Canada is sewn up by the IBC. It is controlled in Ontario by the FSBO and Insurance is driven by market forces. The only way an insurer would give anyone a 20% discount “just like that” is to bump everyone else’s price up to cover the losses.
That might work in some jurisdictions but there are laws that protect the market here in Canada and Ontario.
You may know lots about the Home Inspections profession Kevin but you show you have much to learn about the finance sector or how it works.
And at my age, probably more often , although not as much 
Len 20% was being facetious at the time. I care less about OntarioAchi each week that goes by. I want Home Inspectors to know to steer clear of you for the time being until you are removed as a director.
Don’t like what I say tough it.
Gee Len reading your post’s looks to me like a lot of wishful thinking on your part.
I expect what ever comes down the pipe ( If we do get Licensing ???) might be a lot different to what I read in your posts.
I would say to all please do not be influenced by what I or others say we all are just guessing .
Some of us who have been around longer just might be closer to what the future might be then others.
Doug,
Whatever the price is for the initial Home Inspection License it’s unlikely to go up in the first 3-4 years.
The government (whoever gets voted in) has to be carefull that it is not seen actionable on them that they become responsible for the prices of Home Inspections going through the roof.
If this were to happen less people would have Home Inspections and the level of risk on them would go up. It would be seen as a tax on the home buyer.
We raised this point in the OntarioACHI formal response to the MCS. I raised it myself several times during the panel meetings. I think they get it, or at least I hope they do.
In addition, I believe, Ontario cannot get too far out of step with the other provinces with regard licensing costs. There would be “blood in the water” as far as the press was concerned, and it would likely bring down any government.
It’s only a matter of time before we have to factor in the 4.2% WSIB gross levy to our fees, lumping the Licensing costs onto that is not going to do the government any favours.
Unlike $2bn for not building a gas plant which is hidden in little add-on taxes, going from $350-$500 to $600-$750 to have your prospective home inspected because the government asks too much for a license fee hits home really quickly.
Very professional, indeed!
It takes allot for me to make this kind of comment.