Originally Posted By: mboyett
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Sagging lintel ]
–
Mike Boyett
Capital City Inspections
Austin, Tx
www.capcityinspections.com
Sagging lintel ]
Originally Posted By: mcyr
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Michael;
You have a good eye to have picked this up.
Good work.
My questions would be looking at this,
What is the stone facing composition?
What kind of lintel support was supporting this masonry, as much as can be visually inspected?
Any leads to whether or not it was bolted to the wood header for this opening?
What size was the wood header in the garage above this opening?
Glad to help if I can.
Marcel
Originally Posted By: mboyett
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Marcel,
Thanks for trying. This is going to be a difficult one I think. The lintel was a 1/4" or so steel/iron plate but I could not determine how wide it was, probably 4" or so and primed/painted. I could not determine how far over each end it rested on the lower rocks but it appeared adequate. The inside of the garage was drywalled so the header was not visible but I suspect it is a double 2/12 and unknown how or if the lintel was bolted to it. The stone facing is a very common limestone veneer around this area. Each stone is approximately 3"-4" thick so the overall weight above the door is substantial. I think a pallet of these stones weighs about 1 US ton so I would guess there is 2-3 tons of weight above the door.
The way I wrote this up was to identify the observation and recommend that the client have the builder provide a PE stamped document that the lintel was designed and installed properly. I also indicated that by using the 1/240 rule that the sag was barely within industry acceptable tolerances but, again, to get the PE to confirm that.
–
Mike Boyett
Capital City Inspections
Austin, Tx
www.capcityinspections.com
Originally Posted By: bking
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
A double 2x12 is not adequate for that size door, it should be double 16 or 18 inch LVL and the lintel should be well bolted every 14 to 18 inches. Sag tolerance does not apply, that is a serious problem with all that stone there.
Originally Posted By: mcyr
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Mike; Your call to recommend an SE was well done.
The weight of this stone faced facade is approximately 50 pounds per square foot which would relate to about 1512.5 pounds directly imposed on the lintel you observed.
This is assuming that the roof is a 6/12 pitch and the garage is approximately 22 feet wide. The rise on this would be 5'-6" high with the triangular weight distribution, added by the window in the gable, this scenario would have required at least the minimum of a 3 1/2" horizontal by 5 1/2" vertical leg angle bolted to a 2"x12" doubled with a 1/2" plywood in-between if it is of a 3 1/2" wall construction.
Since I am just looking at a picture, this is the best I can do to help.
Take care.
Marcel
Originally Posted By: mboyett
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Bruce & Marcel,
Thanks for that input and calculations. I think I will go back out to the subdivision this builder is working in and look closely at a couple of the homes they have under construction to see how it is being done. I’ll take some photos as well and also try to take a look at the construction drawings. If I can find anything else I’ll post it here. Thanks again.
–
Mike Boyett
Capital City Inspections
Austin, Tx
www.capcityinspections.com
Originally Posted By: thejnicki
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Any chance you could take a look at the prints since the house is new?? Why not take advantage of knowing how it was designed.
Originally Posted By: mboyett
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| mboyett wrote: |
| and also try to take a look at the construction drawings. |
--
Mike Boyett
Capital City Inspections
Austin, Tx
www.capcityinspections.com
Originally Posted By: thejnicki
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
oops…
Originally Posted By: Jay Moge
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
i know this may be a DUH type question, but is there any chance that you measurments could be obscured by a slight crown in the driveway pads? middle would be higher for water run off. sometimes the most obvios is overlooked.
Originally Posted By: mboyett
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Jay, yes, there is definitely that possibility. Only thing was, that in real life, up close and personal to the lintel and header you could see the sag. Like I say, the picture is too far away to show it though. I did point out to my client that what you say could be affecting my measurements. That’s just another reason to get the builder’s engineer to sign off on it. Thanks for bringing that up.
–
Mike Boyett
Capital City Inspections
Austin, Tx
www.capcityinspections.com
Originally Posted By: bking
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Double 2x12’s even with plywood in-between is no good for that span. To top it off the 2x12’s framers use will usually have splices in them. That looks like an 18 ft. door opening. LVL is necessary or steel beam in my opinion.
Originally Posted By: mtimpani
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
whats 1/240 ?
–
Thank you, MarkTimpani
www.pridepropertyinspections.com
Originally Posted By: ckratzer
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Bruce, I agree with you about the sistered LVL 's .
All the carpenters and architects I know have learned that over time a 2x12 sandwich header will deflect.
Especially on spans of 10' and over.When I see 2X12 headers indicated over a garage on any plan I build I always have an architect change it to LVL's.
To expand on Jays thought, one can easily find out by pulling string taught parallel to the header then measure the gap at the ends and center.
Originally Posted By: mboyett
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Mark, the 1/240 rule that I was taught says that for any given wood span that the maximum allowed sag or deflection is calculated by dividing the span length, in inches, by 240. For instance, an 18’ span would calculate out as 18’ x 12" = 216", then 216" / 240 = 0.9" maximum deflection. My training uses that calculation for wood floor joists so that’s why I was wondering if it held true for other wood joist/beam applications as well.
–
Mike Boyett
Capital City Inspections
Austin, Tx
www.capcityinspections.com
Originally Posted By: mcyr
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Mike, I believe code is L/360.
Marcel
Originally Posted By: mboyett
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Marcel, Could be…the book I use for general knowledge is " Principles of Home Inspection - Standards & Practices" published by our good friends at Dearborn. It states that L/240 is used for flooring systems when the underside is not finished with drywall or plaster. If it is finished on both the top and bottom sides, like a second story floor with a ceiling below, then you would use the L/360 or 1/2" max like you indicate. I’ll try to scan that page and post it here later for folks to throw darts at. I do plan to get back out to the builder’s site tomorrow to see if I can get some more data. Thanks!
–
Mike Boyett
Capital City Inspections
Austin, Tx
www.capcityinspections.com
Originally Posted By: ccoombs
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Deflection criteria are L/240 for total load and L/360 for live load only. These are used for calculations. If it exceeds L/240 it is an issue. There are other deflection criteria related to different siding material. I couldn?t find the code section, but if I remember correctly, it was deflection criteria for studs with stone siding.
Deflection in the garage headers is a very common issue even without the stone siding. I always specify a minimum size header regardless of siding (and it would calculated with such a heavy load).
I look forward to seeing the additional pictures.
--
Curtis
Originally Posted By: mboyett
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Joist_sag1.PDF )
Just the drawing…not the verbiage below it.
–
Mike Boyett
Capital City Inspections
Austin, Tx
www.capcityinspections.com
Originally Posted By: mboyett
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Garage_header_001.jpg )
( Image: Garage_header_002.jpg )
( Image: Garage_header_003.jpg )
( Image: Garage_header_004.jpg )
( Image: Garage_header_005.jpg )
( Image: Garage_header_006.jpg )
( Image: Garage_header_007.jpg )
( Image: Garage_header_at_inspected_home_1.jpg )
( Image: Garage_header_at_inspected_home_2.jpg ) Note: this one is out of proportion due to camera lens.
( Image: Garage_header_details.jpg )
( Image: Garage_header_lintel_1.jpg )
( Image: Garage_header_lintel_2.jpg )
–
Mike Boyett
Capital City Inspections
Austin, Tx
www.capcityinspections.com