Service Panel Access for a duplex

Originally Posted By: jmichalski
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Client is considering the purchase of a home for conversion to a duplex. There is a single service panel in the basement serving the entire home currently.


Is it required by NEC or IRC to have access to a breaker panel within each unit that serves that unit? I thought that this had been discussed elsewhere on the board and I have tried searching the old IRC on CD and this Board but can't seem to find that discussion.

The panel will likely have to be replaced anyway, and I know to check with the local Code Official (I have a call in) but I am not optimistic that I will get a timely response, so all help is deeply appreciated here.

Thanks!


Originally Posted By: jpope
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Yes - NEC 230.72©



Jeff Pope


JPI Home Inspection Service


“At JPI, we’ll help you look better”


(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: jmichalski
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Thanks for the fast answer, Jeff. You are a huge help on this forum!


Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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An outside disconnect may be the best choice (more easily considered accessible) but I bet you are going to have bigger problems that that if the house wasn’t wired as a duplex originally. Circuits are likely to be crisscrossing between units.


Around here you really can't split a parcel in most cases so it is not a common question.


Originally Posted By: jmichalski
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That may be a consideration, but I think that the basement unit he would like to set up might be on its own circuit. Besides, if he is pulling two new panels to meet code, it can’t be too much more work to pull new wires to the basement rooms and attach them to the new panel.


Traditional duplexes are probably a lot more complex.

Do I understand you to mean that the main disconect has to be readily accessible to all parties, or just a panel for the items in each unit?

Jeff, if you have the NEC citation hand, could you post it? Thanks!


Originally Posted By: jwilliams4
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NEC 230.72© In a multiple-occupancy building, each occupant shall have access to the occupant’s service disconnecting means.


The exception would be if the management paid for each occupant's service.


--
"not just an inspection, but an education"

Originally Posted By: jpope
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Jae’s got it.


The tenant/occupant must have access to turn power off at their own unit - however that looks.

The exception is not likely to apply to this building.


--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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My thinking about the outside disconnect was just that if the service disconnect was inside it would end up in one unit or the other. By having an outside disconnect you could run subs to each inside unit from there.


Originally Posted By: jmichalski
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Thank you all for the help! I love that I got answers all over this BB befofre the code inspector has even thought about calling me back.


Originally Posted By: wdecker
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When I see a condo or a townhouse complex without a main disconnect (and more than six breakers) accessable in the unit, I call it out.


May times, the disconnect is at the meter, in the basement and behind a locked door.

There is no problem with having two main disconnects, is there. One at the meter and one at the units panel?


--
Will Decker
Decker Home Services
Skokie, IL 60076
wjd@DeckerHomeServices.com

Originally Posted By: jpope
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wdecker wrote:
There is no problem with having two main disconnects, is there. One at the meter and one at the units panel?


Two "mains" would infer a parallel service.

One at the meter and one at the panel still leaves only one "main." The disconnect furthest upstream is the service disconnect (main).


--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: bkelly2
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wdecker wrote:
When I see a condo or a townhouse complex without a main disconnect (and more than six breakers) accessable in the unit, I call it out.

May times, the disconnect is at the meter, in the basement and behind a locked door.

There is no problem with having two main disconnects, is there. One at the meter and one at the units panel?


Will isn't the panel in the condo usually a subpanel?


--
"I used to be disgusted, Now I try to Be amused"-Elvis Costello

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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Will is right. It is still a “main” disconnect if it is the main feeder to a sub panel you are disconnecting.


Originally Posted By: wdecker
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OK, so the ‘main disconnect’ is at the meter (and probably trhe ground bonding as well.


What I meant to convey was the problem of a condo owner having no means to de-energize their unit with a maximum of six throws and how most electricians and builders around here don't seem to care.

Just make sure the sparky puts his opinion in writing and inclused his license #, union card # and insurance cert. That way, he had the liability when someone dies.


--
Will Decker
Decker Home Services
Skokie, IL 60076
wjd@DeckerHomeServices.com

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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Will, the “less than 6” language is only in the articles referring to the “service conductors” to the whole building. Each occupant of a multi occupancy, only needs access to the breakers that serve their unit and a maximum number is not specified. 240.24(B) , 225.40, 230.92


Originally Posted By: wdecker
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Again, Greg,


I was not referring to code. I was referreing to safety.

Do you believe that a condo unit owner is safe if they cannot quickly de-energize their unit?


--
Will Decker
Decker Home Services
Skokie, IL 60076
wjd@DeckerHomeServices.com

Originally Posted By: bkelly2
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Greg Fretwell wrote:
Will is right. It is still a "main" disconnect if it is the main feeder to a sub panel you are disconnecting.


So generally the condo panel is a sub panel?


--
"I used to be disgusted, Now I try to Be amused"-Elvis Costello

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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The panel in a condo is always going to be a sub.


The “service” disconnect, even if it is actually up to 6 grouped disconnects will be in a central location.


Will, as long as the unit owner can turn off all of their breakers, they can shut down the power. You still have time to file a proposal if you think they need less than 6 handles. Lets see what CMP10 says about it.
http://forums.nfpa.org:8081/pcsubmit/pctopB.html


Originally Posted By: wdecker
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Greg;


Why should I file a request when I can just call it out. You are thinking like an electrician, not an HI. I am not limited by codes.

It is unsafe if a homeowner cannot de-energize their dwelling with 6 or less throws.


--
Will Decker
Decker Home Services
Skokie, IL 60076
wjd@DeckerHomeServices.com

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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You say you don’t cite code but six is an arbitrary number, specified in the “code”. Why is six any safer than seven?