Small vent problem

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1

Originally Posted By: dbush
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I guess it is a good thing this is a vacant house. Seller said they had no idea that the vent was pushing all of the carbon monoxide directly into the attic. However, I did not test the furnace since my TIFF 8800 started going off as soon as I got in the laundry room. You should have heard it when it got close to the shutoff valve. Really nice new heater, old shutoff valve. This is one of those things that you would not have been able to see without entering the attic.


http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/Pa140013.jpg

Sorry about the first attempt at posting the picture. My camera saves them at 680 x 400 and that is too big for the board so I have to resize them and I forgot.

--
Dave Bush
MAB Member

"LIFE'S TOUGH, WEAR A HELMET"

2

Originally Posted By: jpope
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Fixed icon_biggrin.gif

–
Jeff Pope


JPI Home Inspection Service


“At JPI, we’ll help you look better”


(661) 212-0738

3

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Dave, holy crap, good find! Was that also an asbestos wrap on the pipe, or is it just the picture.


Blaine

4

Originally Posted By: rstephens
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It is amazing how many vents I find like that when doing termite inspections. It is actually scary. I found one last month that the entire vent pipe to a floor furnace had came apart luckily he had not ran the furnace yet this year. I bumped into a vent from a furnace one time and the pipe crubled and fell abart from all the rust. See everyone should have a yearly inspection of their home to ensure that it is safe.

5

Originally Posted By: jonofrey
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Good point Russell, I like the way you think. icon_idea.gif

–
Inspection Nirvana!


We're NACHI. Get over it.
6

Originally Posted By: rstephens
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Thank you John

7

Originally Posted By: arosenbaum
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bwiley wrote:
Dave, holy crap, good find! Was that also an asbestos wrap on the pipe, or is it just the picture.

Blaine


It could be... or it could not be... but its a possibility...

Unless someone is certified in that field... can't tell for sure.... ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)
8

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Aaron,


I used to work in a lab that did all of those wonderful tests. Meloy Labs in Springfield VA. If I saw it on an inspection, I would tell a client that it is "asbestos like material" and if it concerns you, get further testing. ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)

Blaine

9

Originally Posted By: jonofrey
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bwiley wrote:
If I saw it on an inspection, I would tell a client that it is "asbestos like material" and if it concerns you, get further testing. ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)
Blaine


Blaine,

IMHO, the statement above would be treading on very dangerous ground. I would avoid saying or writing a description such as "asbestos like". What does that mean exactly? I think you may be trying to say that it has a similar appearance but there is no way to be certain unless tested in a lab. Unfortunately, the first image that comes to my mind when I hear "asbestos like" is; it must be harmful and cancer causing like asbestos. I would guess that most consumers would understand the statement in a similar way.

This subject may have already been beaten to death on this board (I haven't searched the term, asbestos) but this is a word that I've been trained to avoid mention of. I'm open for discussion on this so I'll pose the question. Is it our job as H.I's to identify asbestos? I think not.

--
Inspection Nirvana!

We're NACHI. Get over it.
10

Originally Posted By: arosenbaum
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I don’t know what the correct wording would be to put down on a report…


because if you don't mention it at all, then it looks like a cover up...

Maybe someone else has a better way of writing it on a report....

11

Originally Posted By: nlewis
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IMO It is part of our job to identify possible asbestos containing material. Of course our job description disclaims inspecting for asbestos and environmental hazards,but the question always comes up, so I have to explain to buyers that asbestos was in hundreds of household products, etc…


That pipe looks like Transite, which is basically cement with asbestos to strenghten it. Commonly used for heat ducts in floor slabs and for flue pipes.


I agree with Blaine’s statement to the buyer- If it concerns you, have it tested.

12

Originally Posted By: dbush
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But this vent pipe also falls into the old asbestos tile adage. Don’t f*** with it if it aint broke. Unless I am mistaken the asbestos danger is not from everyday use it is from cutting and removal of it.

–
Dave Bush


MAB Member


"LIFE'S TOUGH, WEAR A HELMET"
13

Originally Posted By: psabados
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Hey John


If you were inspecting the dwelling, came up with an unknown substance wrapped around ductwork or boiler lines, what would be your response?

I would make some kind of disclosure statement about the presence of an unknown material. possibly asbestos based and further testing by a qualified specialist should be performed if its of concern.

To me, it would be better to let them know that a condition that may be a potential problem exists rather than to say nothing and let it pass. I wouldn't want to get in the middle of an EPA cleanup law suit because I didn't alert them to the potential. I'm not asbestos certified or anything like that but it a case of C.Y.A. now rather than later. ![eusa_doh.gif](upload://has2a0g32D0AAlDjAwVcrg3HnhX.gif)

Does anybody have a link to current asbestos abatement procedures? Use to be that encapsulation was the preferred method.

Paul

14

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Quote:
IMHO, the statement above would be treading on very dangerous ground. I would avoid saying or writing a description such as "asbestos like". What does that mean exactly?


John,

I have been using the statement since I began inspecting homes, unfortunately had to use it many times, and learned the statement in HI training. I was taught to always use language like "asbestos like material, or has a similar appearance to asbestos type materials". I never had a client or Realtor bat an eye about the statement, and they were always happy to have the information about a potentially dangerous situation.

We had a development nearby which had thousands of homes built after WWII, all with boilers, and all with Asbestos cement pipe insulation. I even saw it as a cardboard style material which wrapped galvanized ducts in the basement of one house. I used the statement in that report, and the client was very happy to have the seller pay the 3K to have the asbestos duct insulation removed.

Anyway, I'm glad Dave found the disconnected pipe. CO is definitely a more immediate danger.

Blaine ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)
15

Originally Posted By: jonofrey
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bwiley wrote:

I used the statement in that report, and the client was very happy to have the seller pay the 3K to have the asbestos duct insulation removed.
Blaine ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)


Blaine, was that material tested in a lab prior to removal?

Here's my point:

I would rather take the risk of someone trying to come back on me for not having identified an "asbestos like" material in my report as opposed to having someone try to back bill me for money spent on removal of "asbestos like" material that turned out not to be asbestos.

I am not qualified to identify asbestos or "asbestos like" material. The only way it can be positively identified is in a lab. As far as I am concerned, Hardy Plank is "asbestos like". Why even mention the word "asbestos". Beyond the scope of the H.I., IMHO

Blaine, you still have not answered my first question which was: What does "asbestos like" mean, exactly?

Agreed, good catch on the CO leak. BTW - Dave, I agree with you on the "if it ain't broke, don't fu** with it" philosophy. I don't know much about asbestos except that if you want to make it a hazard, stir it around a little bit. Kinda like a Rattlesnake.

--
Inspection Nirvana!

We're NACHI. Get over it.
16

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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John,


"Asbestos like material" would be a material consistent with any of the types of pipe or duct wrappings commonly used in the mid 1900's. They are usually white or light grey, and may have a corrugated look when viewed from the end and kind of look like cardboard with plaster of paris holding it together. I was shown many different types of this in HI class (pictures naturally). I have been told that it was even used as an attic insulation for a short time, but I have never seen it.

On the case in point, I recommended testing in case the material was asbestos. The buyers had small children and were concerned enough to spend the $50 for the lab test.

As far as Dave's statement, I agree to a point. If the stuff is in an uninhabitable area, don't mess with it. Things like floor tiles or Asbestos Cement shingles are usually well encapsulated. But...many of the insulated boiler pipes and ducts are in very accessible areas in basements, at least in the housing development I mentioned earlier, where kids could bang the pipes with toys, or touch them, etc. Then the stuff may become airborne. I would rather recommend a test for the possibility than have a parent come back at me with a lawyer because their kids were playing with the stuff. It is the way I was taught, and the way I have operated for many years. Fortunately, we don't have that problem now that I have moved to FL.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)

Best,
Blaine

17

Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
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Here’s what I tell my clients when I find what I think is an “Asbestos Containing Material”.



The white tape at the air conditioning duct joints is what appears to be an asbestos containing material. The only way to definitively identify it as asbestos containing material is through laboratory testing.

I recommend that you contact a qualified asbestos abatement contractor to determine the best method to positively determine whether or not the material contains asbestos, determine the best repair method, estimate costs, and perform the necessary repairs.

Contractors may be found by looking in the yellow pages under ?Asbestos Abatement?

ASBESTOS CARE & REMOVAL

First don?t panic and walk away from the purchase of a good home, just because it MAY have some asbestos containing material in it. Educate yourself about the asbestos issues.

There are many sources of information available:
The library, the internet, government agencies, and asbestos abatement contractors are a few.

There are two primary methods of dealing with asbestos containing material:
Encapsulation (seal it up in place)
Abatement (removing it)

Remember that asbestos abatement contractors make their living removing asbestos and may have a personal interest in convincing you to remove it.

According to the State of Kentucky?s Natural Resources and Environmental Protection Cabinet, Division for Air Quality web site, there are no regulations on asbestos removal in ?residential use homes and apartment buildings having no more than four dwelling units?.
Web Site Address: http://www.air.ky.gov.daqhome.html . Look for Asbestos information.

Remember that this issue may come back again when you decide to sell the house.

Educate yourself about asbestos before making a decision.
===============================================

--
Erby Crofutt
B4U Close Home Inspections
Georgetown, Kentucky
www.b4uclose.com

18

Originally Posted By: psabados
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Erby,


Great statement for the report. You've qualified the possible condition, set a positive tone on handling the situation and gave them some basic sources of reference. ![eusa_clap.gif](upload://vwXJP6EroRUgatgS660IOyuD5XK.gif)

"He who has the information has the power!"

Nice

Paul