Support needed or not??

Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
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This house has been standing for 88 years. The floors are a bit uneven.


I’m not an engineer, so it’s hard to tell, but do you think there should be a post under this beam at this connection?


If I lay it out to you, there are three main beams in the basement. Two go the length of the building from foundation wall to foundation wall supported twice by wood posts. The third beam stretches between the two other beams forming the middle section of the “H”. The middle beam is not supported at all. It just seems to be a fitted joint to the other two.


![](upload://fyNmMnmvqW591qUfC4KBQlJqNmf.jpeg)


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Originally Posted By: dbowers
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for the continued future performance of this component you’d be doing yourself a favor by installing extra support".


Is that right - is that wrong - who cares if its your honest conviction and opinion.


Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
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My opinion would be that the middle of the H is not designed or placed as a beam. More like bridging to hold the two beams in place.



Erby Crofutt


B4U Close Home Inspections


Georgetown, Kentucky



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Originally Posted By: jpope
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It needs a support. Whether by hanger or post, it needs a support.


It's a joist or beam, is it not? It's not a fire block. It's not a cantilever. It needs a support at its termination.


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Jeff Pope
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Originally Posted By: jpeck
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ecrofutt wrote:
My opinion would be that the middle of the H is not designed or placed as a beam. More like bridging to hold the two beams in place.


Erby,

Look at the photo again, and look at the directions the floor joists run.

That center beam is a floor loaded beam, and may even be loaded with a wall above.

They probably figured (80 years ago) that it would hold like this, and it has ... sort of. However, at this time, and in my opinion, it needs a support at each end where this center beam is connected to the two main beams.


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Jerry Peck
South Florida

Originally Posted By: phinsperger
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kmcmahon wrote:
It just seems to be a fitted joint to the other two.
Kevin, what do you mean by "fitted". Is it just a flush butt joint or is it mortised like the old barns?


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Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
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I think it’s a mortise and tenon joint as it appears to be a clean connection.



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Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
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In My Opinion, for the continued future performance of this component you’d be doing yourself a favor by installing extra support".


Is that right - is that wrong - who cares if its your honest conviction and opinion.


I agree with Dan, on both counts.


Originally Posted By: tallen
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Brian A. Goodman wrote:
In My Opinion, for the continued future performance of this component you'd be doing yourself a favor by installing extra support".

Is that right - is that wrong - who cares if its your honest conviction and opinion.


I agree with Dan, on both counts.



10-4

call em' like you see um.


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Originally Posted By: phinsperger
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I also agree with Brain (as usual) that it would be safe to install extra support.


However, seeing how it is a mortise and tenon joint, it might be fine as it is. An engineer would have to determine this. It would be cheaper just to put in the supports.


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Paul Hinsperger
Hinsperger Inspection Services
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Originally Posted By: Guest
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The mortise and tenon joint in this case, dramatically affects the integrity of the tenon beam, effectively reducing it’s load carrying ability to somewhere near the tenon’s dimension. There is a horizontal crack in the beam that probably originates at the base of the tenon. Stick a post in there with a plate that supports both beams…get er done .


Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
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Thanks for the insights guys. It’s appreciated. I just had a gut feeling that one is needed regardless if it’s been standing 80 years or not.



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Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
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Just to get a little more general while we’re in this area, I tend to always prefer the most proven, foolproof answer available for any given problem. I think one of the reasons we have so many problems with materials and systems today is that we’ve been moving away from some of the time-honored basics. Ideas like slope for drainage, drainage planes, overhang, overlap, direct bearing, solid materials, and general over-engineering (if a 2 x 4 is “adequate”, use a 2 x 6). We used to believe in these things, before the rise of technology.


Whoever designed EIFS with no drainage plane ignored a long-proven a basic principle. I've seen a few houses here built with no overhang at the eaves. I've seen engineered solutions fail where direct bearing could have been had if anyone had stood up to the client and said "You need a support there, sir! Forget about asthetics for a minute."

Recommend the proven ideas. If they choose otherwise, so be it.