Thank you Bill Mullen.

Local Inspection Issues Canadian Home Inspectors
1

As many of you know I’ve been struggling (for years now) with creating the “Certified Master Inspector” professional designation at www.certifiedmasterinspector.org Much of the struggle had to do with figuring out a set of requirements that were attainable yet meaningful and that included credit for both education and experience. It sounds simple enough, but it wasn’t. Anyway, I had much help from NACHI members on the message board who really thought through every angle of every proposal… outloud. Some folks helped out of public view by phone and email. Bill Mullen was one who contributed much behind the scenes. He put aside association politics and allowed me to bounce one idea after another off of him. The Master Inspector Certification Board and I are forever grateful to him for sharing his thinking with us, thinking that that helped us get it right.

Thanks Bill!

2

Why would anyone become a CMI when they can be Nationally Certified in Canada through CAHPI? That is the benchmark in Canada. As the benchmark it will likely be used at some point for licencing threshold in Canada. What will CMI be the benchmark for?

Yes thank you Bill Mullen for your service and your insight! Licencing for one and all.

3

Nick,
are you suggesting the CMI will be accepted by CAHPI as on par with their National Certification here in Canada?
Wolf

4

CMI is national certification in Canada whether CAHPI accepts it or not.

5

The more important question is will anyone accept it, never mind CAHPI.

6

Who is the “anyone” you care about accepting it? Accept it for what? It is what it is… a national certification for inspectors.

7

Anyone=non aligned and current CHI’s. What is it offering that is not already offered? A title?

8

What is a non-aligned and current CHI?

9

Non-aligned=non Nachi
Current CHI are those Nachi members who hold CHI.

10

Oh, those are both subsets of inspectors. I think I’m still lost. What do you mean… “accept it”? Accept it for what?

11

Ray
You lost me. CHI is a designation we are not allowed to use in Canada, as you well know. You seem to be concerned with jumping on the National Certification bandwagon, as I am, but then you do not want to accept a CMI designation as an alternative. I believe that, with the new requirements for CMI status, it will be a far more credible benchmark of competence than the National will ever be. With the National being brought in it should dilute the RHI status significantly. By the way you are right, licensing is the way to go here in the great white north. I just don’t see it as a viable program right now as there are not enough inspectors to make the bureaucracy sustainable with the amount of money the fees will bring in.
Larry

12

Larry,

I think titles are meaningless. RHI, Certified… another meaningless title that the public really knows nothing about.

The Canadian Associations of record have repeatedly shown they cannot leave their animosities behind. They don’t have any intention of playing fairly. Which leads me to ask, why even bother with CMI, why doesnt NACHI just solicit and push for licencing in every province where it has members? CMI will be irrelevent with licencing. Why don’t we get the ball moving with licencing instead of wasting time running around trying to reinvent the rules?

As to licencing and numbers, I don’t think it matters the government will bare the cost and likely impose a processing fee or application fee. They have to start licencing at some point waiting for appropriate numbers to do it I don’t think is a concern. If licencing in Ontario were to happen tomorrow you already have sufficient numbers of approximately 1000 inspectors.(OAHI/ASHI/NACHI) Ditto B.C. The same circumstances apply. However I now read the licencing scheme is on hold and nothing has moved forward fwiw in B.C.

I think the time has come to stop the turf wars and take the power from those who have abused it for their own agenda. Licencing will remove the power from those who are abusing it. The evidence of that speaks volumes.

Nachi could be at the forefront of pushing for licencing. I have been in this biz since 1991 and all I have ever seen is mismanagement.

13

Licensing is bad inspectors, bad for consumers, bad for other inspection associations, and good for NACHI the association.

In the U.S. (where we operate as 50 seperate countries) we have had licensing in some states for many years, some a few years, some just recently adopted licensing and some swear they’ll never license home inspectors… so we can see what licensing does for inspectors, consumers, other trade associations and NACHI very clearly.

Licensing harms individual inspectors because licensing sets a minimum standard that everyone can meet. Outside of Texas, my 13 year old son could be a home inspector in every state in the U.S. In the U.S. some licensing boards even use the NHIE, an exam that everyone can pass. This harms inspectors in two ways. First, everyone gets licensed easily, so veteran inspectors who have established markets for themselves over the years, wake up one morning and are as licensed as a guy who went into business yesterday… worse… the state lists them equally as “licensed” on their website. Second, it hurts inspectors because adopting licensing roughly triples the number of inspectors in that state (we’ve watched state after state adopt licensing and have the number of inspector nearly triple). How would you like to wake up tomorrow to 3 times the number of competitors you have today… all of them just as “licensed” as you?

Licensing harms consumers because it commoditizes our services as an industry (killing inovation, especially where standardized reporting forms are adopted like in TX), drives prices (and therefore service) down, forces REALTORs to point to the government’s licensed list (to avoid negligent referral claims) instead of the very best inspectors (as is there fiduciary duty to do), demands boring, approved continuing education that everyone has to attend (instead of continuing education that is more challenging) and tricks consumers into thinking a licensed inspector is a qualified inspector… as qualified as any other “licensed” inspector.

Licensing harms other inspection associations that are merely credential-only associations (associations that have primarly focused on being a credential where none used to exist). These associations have websites you can visit. Visit them… and look for their benefits pages. There are none. Their only benefit is some sort of weak-at-best credential. When the government goes into the credential business (adopts licensing) they kick these association’s a$s. The government is really good at the credential-offering business, and these associations flounder. New inspectors want in order: A license (from the government) and everything else to succeed (from NACHI). That’s it. Inspectors these days are not as emotionally loyal to trade associations (especially one’st that have been ripping them off with high dues and no benefits). ASHI, a no-entrance-requirement-whatsoever association in the U.S. for instance has lost members in every state that adopted licensing… despite the total number of inspectors increasing in every state that adopted licensing… wow.

Licensing helps NACHI the association (not individual NACHI members) because NACHI provides everything the government won’t provide. We don’t compete with the government on their turf too much and they don’t bother us on our turf. The government offers minimum standard licensing, NACHI offers everything else your business needs. NACHI is very strong in licensed states because once you get a license… you are only 1% done procuring all you need to be successful. NACHI offers the other 99% of the pie.

As for CMI, REALTORs are licensed in all 50 states and all Provinces of Canada and thousands of licensed REALTORs go out, seek, and earn various professional designations every day (I had several myself when I was a REALTOR). Professional designations are popular in nearly every industry that is licensed and in every state and Province that is licensed, and I don’t see CMI being an exception to this rule. We don’t have to ever worry about the government competing with us in the high-end credential offering business as we can be assured that governments only compete in the *minimum *standard credential offering business. (licensing). Like other industries where professional designations are popular in licensed areas… so will CMI be. The CMI site is what helps make it great… it is high traffic (more traffic than NAHI’s entire site according to alexa.com), already popular with REALTORs and consumers (despite being young), uncluttered, explains quickly what a CMI is and why you should hire one, and makes it simple to find one… not much else. Face it… nothing trumps “Certified Master Inspector”… and certainly not “licensed”… a credential that the average consumer, thinking that everyone is licensed (operating legally), gives you no extra credit for being.

14

very well put Nick

15

Sounds like the best of both worlds!

Licencing I think would allow us to lobby to have the government cap our liability, that would be advantageous in my opinion both liability wise and hopefully reduced E&O premiums. I would also agree NACHI does offer more benefits marketing, info, meetings, conferences…

The only other problem that is not solved is the governance issue with private voluntary self regulating bodies overseeing themselves. I think it very important for proper management and ethics, and the only certification in this area is that licencing takes away self regulation status and oversite of a government body. Pretty hard to hide bodies and bend the rules when the government has appointed a mixed outside council.

16

sorry double post

17

This is going out to all OAHI members I wonder how many if any will be going along with this another great advantage to belonging to OAHI
----- Original Message ----- From: “Info Morely Homes” <info@morelyhomes.com>
To: <
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 2:01 PM
Subject: Morley Home Improvements

>
>
> Please find attached an introduction letter from Morley Home Improvements
> and also a consulting contract that we hope you will fill out and fax back
> to us.
>
> Looking forward to doing business with you and your company.
>
> Vic Morley
>

file:///C:\DOCUME~1\Roy\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image001.gif

           *“**We do it right**”*

MORLEY HOME IMPROVEMENT LTD.

Telephone: 905-664-1400 – Fax: 905-662-8420 – info@morleyhomes.com – www.morleyhomes.com

Home Inspector,

We at [FONT=Arial]Morley Home Improvements would like to introduce ourselves to you and your company. We have been in the home improvement and renovation business since 1968 and bring a combined experience of over 100 years in the home improvement market. [/FONT]
Morley Home Improvements is a service-oriented company providing top quality contracting & renovating services to the Hamilton, Burlington area. Our commitment to customer satisfaction provides a solid foundation for our continued growth.
Renovations are a complex process. We involve our clients in this process as much as possible; allowing them a greater role in the evolving space in which they live. We always listen to our clients, and consult with them if we have any concerns or new ideas.
Morley Home Improvements would like the opportunity to prove to you and your clients that we can provide a one-stop solution for all your renovation and home improvement needs. We offer a five percent (5%) commission for any leads that are provided by you or your company, which develop into contracts.
No matter how large or small your project, we are confident that we can give you the quality service you desire and deserve.
At Morley Home Improvements, we’re not just builders. We’re partners committed to adding value to your next project.

Vic Morley
Morley Home Improvements Ltd.

I wonder would Dave call this spam.

18

Unfortunately it looks like the CAHPI Bulletin Board has ceased to exist.
This is unfortunate ,when it first started it looked like it could be a good thing then it was changed so that only CAHPI members could use it . This could of been a great way to get information and help all Canadian Home Inspectors, but as we continue to see they CAHPI/OAHI wants to be a closed association and help no one not even their own members. Rules have not and are still not followed. I guess it is because of this that many Canadian Home inspectors come to the NACHI BB to find the truth on the industry in Canada . On the CAHPI http://cahpi.ca/links.html site there is a http://www.canadiansforproperlybuilthomes.com/index.html . Bill Mullen is also on this group and it had an article about .Tarion Warranty Corporation – Apology and Retraction I guess there was strong letter sent to Bill Mullen and he has apologized to the Tarion group for some letters written by people who where not happy with the treatment they had received from some builders and the warrantee given . These letters have since been removed (So strange Bill thought these letters where a good thing at one time . He has had much to say on his Private BB about the tarion Group and how their warrantee was not worth the paper it was printed on , How some people change ). the “Homeowners’ Stories” section of this website, Canadians for Properly Built Homes (CPBH) publishes homeowners’ stories. These stories are submitted by homeowners, and are published anonymously or under a pseudonym. Several of these homeowner stories in the “Ontario” subsection contained allegations against Tarion Warranty Corporation (“Tarion”) or its predecessor, Ontario New Home Warranty Program (“ONHWP”) that were not investigated or verified in any way by CPBH. Therefore, these particular homeowner stories have now been removed from the CPBH website. CPBH retracts the allegations and apologizes to Tarion and its employees for having included these homeowner stories on the CPBH website. CPBH is pleased to make this clarification and apology and regrets any inconvenience and embarrassment that may have been caused to Tarion Warranty Corporation or its employees by having published these unverified allegations on our web-site.

The more I hear,
the more I see!
NACHI is the one for me !
Roy Cooke R.H.I. Royshomeinspection.com
A HAPPY NACHI MEMBER,… More find this out ever day!

Remember Whistler http://www.nachi.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4935](http://www.nachi.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4935)

19

Caught in the act again eh! Nice. So much for investigating to ensure accuracy. Sound familiar? I bet they won’t be posting the appology on the CAFE or the CANUCK list. Ooooooops.

20

Looks like the Britts have done the same as CAHPI did with the PDI at Whistler . ( big sales pitch then it fell on its a$$ )

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[size=2]Property news](http://www.findaproperty.com/storylist.html) - Financial Aspects - Government Backtracks On Home Packs

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**Government Backtracks On Home Packs **

19 Jul 2006 News ItemSee also
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Financial aspects
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The Government has stunned the property industry by announcing that key features of the Home Information Pack will no longer be a mandatory requirement when the scheme is launched next year…

http://www.findaproperty.com/library/libp6375.jpg

Under the proposed scheme a seller would have been required to pay £700 to assemble a pack of documents - legal searches, title deeds, and a controversial Home Condition Report (HCR) - before they could put their house on the market.
Critics within the property industry have long been complaining that the scheme was riddled with problems and yesterday the housing minister Yvette Cooper conceded as much when she announced that a key feature of the HIP - the Home Condition Report - will no longer be mandatory.
Cooper stressed that this is to be a deferral of full implementation rather than a complete scrapping of the HCR, the stated reason being that “further testing is needed on the costs and impacts of Home Condition Reports.”
She urged estate agents to encourage sellers to make voluntary use of HCRs and warned that “mandatory introduction of Home Condition Reports remains on the table. However, the Government wants to encourage market-led take-up first, in order to allow a more flexible roll-out that responds to consumer demand and the results of further testing.”
**Dry Run To Come **
Further testing will take place in a dry run of the Pack this autumn but the Government will also have to find a solution to one of the main reasons for deferring the launch of HCRs - there are nowhere near enough home inspectors to make the system work.
The Government calculates that 7,000 home inspectors will be needed to do the job, but thus far only 250 have been fully trained and another 4,000 are undergoing training.
However, for those hoping to become home inspectors (many of whom have paid up to £8,000 to train), and indeed for the various industry organisations that have invested heavily in HIPS, doubts must surely remain about the fate of the whole HIPS project.
While Cooper says that the deferral of mandatory HCRs is part of a gradual phasing-in plan, many suspect that this is the first step towards phasing out of HIPs - and if so that will have serious consequences for those who had hoped to provide the Packs.
**Disappointment … And Delight **
Karen Babington, Director of Sales and Marketing at Easier2Move, which was gearing up to become a major supplier of HIPS, said:

"This announcement came as somewhat of a shock as the Government has in effect removed one of the fundamental features of Home Information Packs (HIPs).
"These reports are intended to provide an objective review on the condition of the property and help consumers make better-informed purchase decisions.
"As this is one of the governments stated objectives, this sudden U-turn seems to contradict the very purpose of these packs. We can only hope that the HCR trial goes well and they become mandatory inclusions in future.

“This sudden change to the structure of HIPs - less than a year before they are due to be launched - is also likely to damage the industry’s confidence in these packs. Making this dramatic change to the structure of the packs makes it extremely difficult for HIP providers to justify allocating time and resources to preparing for the launch of a product, which is liable to change so drastically without warning.”
Estate agents, many of whom have been opposed to HIPS, welcomed the decision. Charles Smailes, President at the National Association of Estate Agents (NAEA), said:
"The Government has admitted it is unlikely to have the necessary number of home inspectors in place by 1 June 2007 to cope with Home Condition Report demands. This has been a major concern of the NAEA and we are thankful the Minister has finally listened.
"We welcome the introduction of trials that will allow sellers to start marketing their homes if they have already commissioned a HIP, rather than forcing them to wait up to 14 days.
"We hope the Government will use the delay in introducing the Home Condition Report as an opportunity to conduct a full and proper trial as originally promised.
"The announcement today is something of a U-turn by the Government on legislation it has been working on for over five years.
“It calls into question the effectiveness of a HIP when the documentation included is now largely available online. The legislation would seem unnecessary and does not cover the important reasons why home sales and purchase transactions fall through.”

© Find A Property 2000-2006

The more I hear,
the more I see!
NACHI is the one for me !
Roy Cooke R.H.I. Royshomeinspection.com
A HAPPY NACHI MEMBER,… More find this out ever day!

Remember Whistler http://www.nachi.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4935