The Grounding Truth Mike Holt

Specific Inspection Topics Electrical Inspections
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MIT did a study on tinfoil hats, makes it worse.

https://web.archive.org/web/20100708230258/http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/

Most of the PPE tower techs wear doesn’t work either.

The problem is a faraday cage needs to be grounded.

(That’s germane to the topic here in the thread)

Most PPE for RF radiation can’t be grounded. your shoes are rubber and the grass isn’t going to ground it, you need a ground conductor to a grounding rod. But also you need a layer of insulation between the garment and the skin.

That’s impractical. The insulation is possible but then you become a capacitor.

Tower workers could clip themselves to the tower but it’s dirty ground. Because the service entrance has the neutral grounded.

What PPE is able to do for RF radiation is a “snowshoe effect”.

It distributes the induced charge over the surface area of the garment, so that it’s evenly distributed.

Useful around smart meters.

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If this were true why would the NEC still require it in modern homes with a three wire system?
Just for the sake of it? I think not.

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The article I linked in the OP claims capacitance.

If the overhead lines are separated from ground the air in between the overhead lines and earth causes capacitance, because the air is an insulative medium, but also a conductive media depending on moisture.

That might be a legit reason.

I’m just trying to understand it all to be more knowkledgeable.

But the other system in Norway(they have highly conductive earth because of the mountains) it isolates the neutrals from ground because of stray ground currents.

What led me to the Mike Holt Article I linked was I wanted to start with earth ground, to make my home safer for me to live in.

I found articles on kids in an apartment complex getting shocked in the swimming pool, and cows on dairy farms getting shocked by ground current.

What fixed that was moving the service so it had a better neutral path to the substation.

It’s a rare problem.

I don’t think I have that problem at my house.

But the way to make sure is to not ground the neutral.

Regarding why hasn’t the code changed?

Codes are created based on past problems(according to the coursework I’ve completed so far with InterNACHI)

If ground current isn’t a big problem, and old houses are a large portion of the housing, might be safer to ground the neutrals, also:

It would be so expensive to upgrade.

Politics.

I would suggest it might be worthwhile to upgrade on new construction, especially new plats.

(New housing developments.)

But it would be impossible to do it with new construction in existing developments, because all the upstream and downstream infrastructure would have to be upgraded too.

I don’t fret over this much. I don’t tether myself to earth ground.

The best solution I have found is limiting exposures and swimming often.

The pool I use doesn’t seem to have neutral/ground current problems.

But ones in places without clay soil might.

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Answer the questions Claire.

Stand-Up-Yourself

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Tell them to quit bugging me to use the forum.

After I take the exams.

I get asked it every time like students are supposed to use it.

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I’m going to need to use this forum once I start working.

Somebody lay it out for me what’s cool and what isn’t.

I am willing to share everything I know.

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Chain Lightening.

I have a friend who lives in Colorado who climbs mountains.

Lightening hit a long way away from him and he got shocked.

Grounding the neutral in mountain villages has the same hazard, somebody drops the space heater into the tub, NEIGHBORS GET SHOCKED.

Just restating the thesis.

In Norway they decided to not ground the neutrals because somebody TURNING ON the Welder shocks the neighbors in the hot tub.

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In the scenario described above, the neighbors along ALL the PATHS of lowest resistance will be most effected when you ARC WELD.

Because of “Ground Path” NEUTRAL CURRENT back along the utility distribution. Underground…

If the power substation is to the north, the people to the north will be effected. Along the lowest resistance paths in the mountain.

Without the neutral GROUNDED, the current from the tub heater might LEAN that way but no as much.

Right?

Ground FAULT currenttakes the path of least resistasane to GROUND CHARGE RESERVIOIRS.

Drop the heater in the tub, goes to the sistribution panel earth rod then both + and - reservoirs of charge in the geology.

ZAP-ZAP at mineral deposits in the soil.

Not back to the SUBSTATION and your NEIGHBOR’s HOME.

Actually that probably does attenuate it a lot.

Hmmm…

But normally, an arkansas trailerpark Tub/Heater incident would arc out to actual ground deposits that are charged, not travel back to the turbine at the dam.

LOL

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Electricity want to return to its source, not the earth.

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It takes all paths of < :infinity: Resistance.

To the generator.

Over the distribution system.

But under it too when that path is low resistance.

Might take a shortcut based on geology.

I’m not saying the engineers who set this up this way were stupid.

I don’t think it’s the biggest environmental health issue, but it’s probably a significant one.

In my life, not much. But I live in clay and sandy loam geology with lots of foliage and roots.

This is why we don’t ground the neutral except at the service, but that’s connected to your neighbor’s.

Let’s go back and look at the multiple ground rod codes…

Where do you need more than one earth electrode rod?

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As I mentioned in my post early in this thread, the service neutral IS the path of least resistance… Earth has too much resistance, and is merely there for a major power surge to minimize surge distribution throughout the home.

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This thread is useless. The guy is a troll, full of bullsh*t.

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Peter, don’t be offended, but your follow up comments sound like you skimmed the links I sent you for the purpose of firing off talking points, which unfortunately betray a deepening lack of understanding on your part. Get organized before you take up the time of people who’re trying to help you.

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Welcome to our forum, Peter!..enjoy participating. :smiley:

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Yes I understand that the neutral conductor is the path of least resistance.

My issue is that electricity flows through ALL PATHS < ∞ R.

All paths less than infinite resistance.

And this causes health problems having commercial electricity return paths flowing through the earth.

Acute things like sudden death may be rare but there are documented cases with swimming pools and dairy cattle, and other cases where it’s been demonstrated to cause chronic conditions. It’s a lot of noise that didn’t used to be present pre-Tesla, pre-Edison.

Most of the current will return through the neutral conductor, but electricity takes all paths < infinity resistance.

Simultaneously.

If you hold a double aught wire and I hold an 18 gauge wire and we are both connected to a live wire and a neutral both of us get electrocuted.

I visualize it as weak underground lightening that spiders around changes direction with changes in moisture and conductivity. As one path causes chemical changes that makes the earth more insulative, the weak lightening seeks another path of less resistance.

Does it matter for health? It does because even if it doesn’t shock you, it creates perturbations in magnetic fields.

Unusual ones not experienced before modern electrical grids.

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Correct. But given multiple routes it takes multiple routes.

By grounding the neutral we are giving it multiple routes.

It’s easier for me to explain this using a DC example.

Bad distributor cap. I once had to drill holes in a distributor cap in order to make it to the auto parts store to get another one.

LOL.

THe carbon brush in the center of the cap, was either made out of a defective material mixture, or the cap had been on the shelf too long and it degraded.

It created a lot of dust which stuck to the inside of the cap and etched paths to the spark plug contacts on all four.

aLL FOUR SPARK PLUGS TRIED TO FIRE AT THE SAME TIME no matter where the rotor was pointed.

I marked these carbon trails and drilled holes in the cap to interrup them, put tape on the outside of the cap so rain wouldn’t get in and I was back on the road until a new one was available.

HAHA

That’s what I get for using a french distributor on an Italian car.

Chances are having the neutral bonded to ground hasn’t affected you. If the soil isn’t conductive enough it’s infinity resistance so all the current travels through the neutral wire back to the substation.

Or if there is some conductivity it’s deep enough you don’t get shocked by it or perceive getting shocked.

And we are able to deal with low lvoltage and even at times high voltage exposures.

I can pick up a car batter by the battery terminals without feeling discomfort.

I feel discomfort if I lick a 9V battery with my tongue.

Haha.

But it doesnt’ kill me.

THe modern grid is so haphazard nobody really checks the conductivity of the earth, many people and animals are getting discomforted by low amp pulses.

And that leads to chronic diseases. If you decided to check all your dying 9v batteries with your tongue it will eventually cause a disease.

Not acute death usually.

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Kudos to everybody who has replied to this thread.

I appreciate opposing views as much as affirmative views.

My posting litarary style may come off like I’m a know-it-all jerk but I know I’m wrong a lot, especially when I’m trying to learn things.

In the original reference, Mike Holt argued that grounding the neutral was because the neutral wires weren’t thick enough.

This is another interesting issue.

Presumably if you send two out of phase AC waves through the same conductor, it doesn’t really much effect the resistance of the conductor as it would if they were in phase.

You can get away with it as long as they are 180 out. Or three phase 120 degrees out.

It’s not going to heat up the neutral and ruin resistance espescially after you convert electrictromotive force to mechanical forces on the user end. THe return current isn’t going to overdo the neutral return wire conductivity.

I don’t think a lot of what is returning through the neutral is anywhere near close to sinusoidal.

Once you run it through a few ac motors it gets dirty and out of phase.

I argue this is why conversely some industrial machinery like CNC lathes use motors to clean up the electricity by adding one just to clean it up.

Branching this out to two isses I guess(but it’s getting real jittery and part of it is the earth path.

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Thank you,

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Touche. But what came first the discomfort or the paliative?

Preventing Shock in Swimming Pools

It wasn’t a high-voltage light that killed a Florida child. Electrical professionals don’t think they’re the problem, but point to various poor practices that can place swimmers at risk.

Preventing Shock in Swimming Pools| Pool & Spa News (poolspanews.com)