Thermal Inspections

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#1

Originally Posted By: gmerlo
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Has anyone done or does anyone know about “Thermal” inspections? I was asked the other day by a Real Estate Agent if I did thermals along with the rest of my inspection. He said a thermal is required for HUD. It may also be required for FHA and VA (not sure about these). The form he gave me is titled “Rural Economic and Community Development”, and underneath that is a sub-title " Thermal and HUD Certification for Existing


Properties". It has places to fill in for “R” factors of the insulation in the ceiling, the walls, and the floor. Also, a place to check for thermal or single pane windows, and for insulated or standard exterior doors. At the bottom are a few lines to state any repairs needed to meet HUD standards, a line for the date, and a line for the signature of the inspector. That seems to be it.


Can anyone fill me in on any details about this kind of inspection? There does not seem to be any certification or further licensing requirements. If there are, please let me know what, how, and where. There is a reference to HUD standards from the HUD Handbook 4150.1 and 4905.1, whatever those are. Does anyone have either or both of these HUD books? I imagine an explanation of what the standards are can be found there.

Gary Merlo

#2

Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Gary,


I think he is full of SH**. When performing inspections I report the presence or absence of insulation in the attic space. When it comes to walls, good luck. How the HE** could you possibly know how much insulation is in the wall without tearing the wall down! DAH icon_biggrin.gif

Joe Myers

#3

Originally Posted By: gmerlo
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Joe,


For the space to fill in for the "R" value in the walls, it does say underneath, in parentheses (if inaccessible, indicate as such). Which, of course, raises the question, of what value is this if the walls are not accessible?

If you have a fax number, Joe, I'll fax you the form I have. If you are going to the NY NACHI meeting tomorrow night, I 'll have it with me.

Gary

#4

Originally Posted By: lfranklin
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"There is a reference to HUD standards from the HUD Handbook 4150.1 and 4905.1, whatever those are. "


There should be a place to check the electric, plumbing on the forms. The guidelines is in the books. You will need these books. Your saying the house meet all the guidelines.(Like all wet location is GFCI protected or need repair to have GFCI installed)

The thermal sheet has to be in the R-value. Attic and crawlspace has to be verified. But the walls unless a new construction can be marked existing dwelling.

The inspection will take about 30 minutes. Its not a house inspection.

#5

Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
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HUD thermal inspections/verification have to do, primarily, with homes for the elderly and infirmed. In conventional homes, qualifying under the 203K program, windows should be thermopane, but there is no requirement for insulation in basements, between the joists. So, dont believe everything you hear…

#6

Originally Posted By: ismetaniuk
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This membership was a big waste of my time!

–
Igor


Top To Bottom Inspections


Glen Spey, NY

#7

Originally Posted By: gmerlo
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Larry,


The form I was given is a one page form, with the questions on one side only. There is no place to indicate anything about plumbing, electrical, etc. Are you saying I was not given all I needed? There are more forms that I need? The realtor only referred to thermal standards, never mentioned anything about anything else.

#8

Originally Posted By: lfranklin
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Gary,


If the thermal is all that is needed, then the one form is all that is need there just different types for different type of loans


They are several different government agents usinging these forms in different combinations.
If the agent knows the system. Correct form and all. These will fly through the system. If they don't it seems to take for ever.
Each geographic area can be different even each county. Most of these inspection are in rural area
Bigger cities seem to only have 1 to 2 a year while out in the hills they seem to have them more often. So check your area.

#9

Originally Posted By: gmerlo
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Larry,


It seems that you have experience with these. Do you just make this a part of your regular inspection, (meaning there is no extra charge), or do you charge a little extra fee for including a thermal inspection? It doesn't seem like there is much to it, most of it would be observable during the course of a regular inspection, so likely I would include it in my regular inspection and not charge extra for it. But, I don't want to be foolish either. If most guys who do these charge for them, then I will, too. If any guys do charge, how much extra do you add? It can't be much for the little amount of work it ads.

Gary

#10

Originally Posted By: lfranklin
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Most people who have these done will not have a home inspection. They will only have what is required for the loan. So the charge is only for the form. You could check to see how many ofer this type of loan and how many they do in a month. I know some areas never have any while the one next to it will have 20. So thats why you should check your area. Its not worth it for only a few a year. The charge will vary depending on what is needed.

#11

Originally Posted By: chorne
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Hi Guys,


In NH we use a 1 page checklist:

USDA Rural Development
Guaranteed Rural housing
New Hampshire/Vermont

Existing Dwelling and Site Requirements

under thermal requirements are:
Ceiling Insulation: R-38 is required unless insufficient area then
insulate to extent possible
Floor or Basement: Box sill is insulated to R19, Heating ducts in
unheated basements or crawl spaces are
insulated where feasible.
Windows:Double paned windows or single pane with storms
Doors:Weatherstripped conv. wood or 1 3/4 inch metal insu.
door system with durable weather stripping are acceptable.

hope this helps,
Carla

#12

Originally Posted By: jhorton
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I know exactly what you are referring too. I do them all the time for The Depart of Agriculture Loans. Rural Housing Development. (I am a Real Estate Appraiser too). This loan program has certain requirements for insulation and living conditions in the house. The rules are very similar to HUD loans but not as strict. (The HUD handbook is available on line BTW somewhere at hud.gov)


I think RHD requires this form to be filled out by an Home Inspector or an Appraiser, at least in our area. The HUD rules goes way beyond typical home inspections. My RHD inspections are very basic and not nearly as in-depth as a "normal" home inspection. But HUD has some strange rules that you really need to be familiar with before you do one. There is not check list that I am aware of, but thats where the standards come in.

For example the house can not be with the fall distance of a electrical towers fall distance. If the house was built before .. well I forgot, you have to disclose this because of possible lead paint. If paint is peeling it has to be fixed. So be careful. They are easy but you just have to know the rules. I recommend printing out the handbook because you will need it!!

--
Jeff <*\\><
The man who tells the truth doesn't have to remember what he said.

#13

Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
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Lead Paint date is 1978.

–
Erby Crofutt


B4U Close Home Inspections


Georgetown, Kentucky


www.b4uclose.com

#14

Originally Posted By: rray
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R-values of different materials seems to be subject to a lot of factors. Anyone know of a good site discussing R-values of various materials? I like it when the insulation has the R-value on it, but how do you determine R-value of some of this older stuff that we see?

–
Home inspections. . . .


One home at a time.


#15

Originally Posted By: dleavitt
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Russel, I have ben at this site and is is fairly informative. http://www.ornl.gov/roofs+walls/whole_wall/



I hope this helps you.
David

#16

Originally Posted By: dleavitt
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Actually if you Google out to Thermal Values it will bring up a ton of information