Originally Posted By: jcampbell
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http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/P/Pix_147.jpg ]
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Jeffrey S. Campbell
http://www.maineshomeinspector.com
http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/P/Pix_147.jpg ]
Originally Posted By: lewens
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More like an “oh,oh” and everybody knows “oh,oh’s” cost money
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Just my usual 12.5 cents
From The Great White North Eh?
NACHI-CAN
www.aciss-brant.com
www.certifiedadulttrainingservices.com/
Originally Posted By: rwand
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Another quality installation by Mr. Homeowner!
Personally I never use the word "problem" I like the word 'concern." It has a nicer ring to it.
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
--
The value of experience is not in seeing much,
but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905
http://www.raymondwand.ca
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (R.H.I.)
Originally Posted By: kwilliams
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| rwand wrote: |
| Another quality installation by Mr. Homeowner!
Personally I never use the word "problem" I like the word 'concern." It has a nicer ring to it. Raymond Wand Alton, ON |
I have found if you use the word problem it can cause panic.
Concern seems not to do that.
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Member - MAB
http://www.nachi.org/convention2006.htm
Originally Posted By: rbennett
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http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/D/DSC03482.JPG ]
I found this one awhile back. The sparkie replaced it with a new 3 prong and tied the neutral and the ground together so it would test ok. (I pulled the cover on the re-inspection) Noted it on report as a safety issue.
Don't know if my client is going to buy the house or not - other issues.
rlb
Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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That looks like a foreign object got under the plug.
The placement of the receptacle may have contributed to the problem but that is all it is.
Originally Posted By: Jay Moge
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see… that’s what happens when you install the duplex up side down. all the ground ions try to get to the “ground” but most of them fall into the hot receptical and poof…saw that once in a cartoon, but i’m pretty sure it can happen.
Originally Posted By: lgoodman
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I consider that receptacle to be right side up and so does my AHJ>
Originally Posted By: Jay Moge
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well obviosly i was joking, but seriosly Leigh, i’ve never seen any code or law saying whats up or down on a duplex but every picture or whatever i’ve seen has always had the ground at the bottom. again i don’t think it matters, but if you know something i don’t, i’d love some educating and see why (if any reason at all).
Originally Posted By: lgoodman
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Jay,
I have never seen a requirement that the ground hole be topside but my AHJ likes them that way and I do everything I can to show him that I am listening and that I think he is a smart fellow. Also I can identify at a glance any receptacle that I have not installed as I have been putting the ground up for about twenty years.
His main concern is that plugs are often not fully inserted into the receptacle which exposes at least a sliver of the prongs. Falling items or swinging cords from the blinds or drapes will more likely contact the ground and be deflected from contact with the energized conductors and some of those cords are metallic.
I have run across metal faceplates that have evidently come unscrewed and have fallen onto the energized conductors. One was mounted on the outfeed table of a work shop table saw. When the plate fell the sparks scared the snot out of the operator who let go of the work he was feeding through the saw blade and that work was flung past the operator and through a window. He was lucky it missed him. I guess the table vibration worked the mounting screw out.
An added benefit for the installer is that ground up attitude also puts the ground connection up and one does not have to stand on ones head to make the connection.
There is probably more to say on the subject but I have reached the limit of my short attention span. If something comes to me later I will be back in touch.
Originally Posted By: Jay Moge
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all very good points Leigh. and they make sence, but I wonder if there is any right or wrong? if anyone (Joe T) has any litterature on this slighly side toppic i’d love to read it.
i guess i just like the look on the outlets face when installed ground down.
Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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Search Google for: “position of grounding prong on receptacle”
Many discussions, and with the same arguments that have made grown men resort to tears! For the last 30 years the subject of "Up or Down" has been argued and always ended with no solution.
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Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm
Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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All of the arguments are based on scenarios of foreign objects lodging between the hot and ground/neutral. As the photo shows, the “safe” way is no panacea. I suppose if we started with a clean slate we could come up with a safer plug cap/receptacle design but we are not going to retrofit billions of existing products.
Originally Posted By: lgoodman
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I am not positive what this photo shows. It appears to me that this metal cover did come in contact with the energized prong. Perhaps this receptacle was inverted after the incident in order to minimize the chance of it occuring again.
I am 90% sure that the cover did not fall up and make contact.
Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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Also, what is the bare stranded copper wire used for where passing through the open knockout? If that is related to the GES that’s another red flag.
--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm
Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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I have changed my opinion. Look again. The blast is centered on a hole in the cover. They pinched a wire putting the cover on.
Originally Posted By: Jay Moge
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1) i think i’m also changing my view on the topic. Leigh makes to many “common sence” points for me to justify installing a duplex in a hazardous condition. well with reference to metal covers.
2)Greg, what the hell is that.???
Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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The picture is the center of that blast mark. See the hole blown in the cover next to the receptacle. That is a pinched wire. I bet Bob has seen that one.
I can’t believe they just stuffed the wire back in and didn’t replace the device and cover.
Originally Posted By: Jay Moge
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oooohhh… now i see it…
Originally Posted By: jcampbell
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http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/P/Pix_146.jpg ]
[ Image: http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/P/Pix_121.jpg ]
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Jeffrey S. Campbell
http://www.maineshomeinspector.com