to calculate or not to calculate

That is the question. So I know we just went over this, but I wanted to see some numbers on if Gable End Walls should be figured into line 7 of the Windstorm Mitigation Inspections Wall Calculations.

You can agree or disagree, it is the current standard to calculate them in.

Apparently based on “most” courses but not all. From what i’ve heard I do not know for sure.

What about all those who were trained differently and do not stay as up to date on the information as those in this forum do. The OIR needs to make a decision. It seems wrong that the insurance company is making the call.

This is why a Preferred vendor network is being implemented.

Four years ago there were different forms for each insurance company. The state insurance regulatory agency (OIR) came out with one form for all. It is their job (OIR) to regulate/oversight not the insurance companies or course instructors/companies that are in the loop. As we know the gable wall was not considered in the wall construction until what/who decided.

Let the Florida Structural Engineers Association (FSEA) make a call, not lobbist. The original purpose of the mitigation program was to strenghten the buildings. How does calling a gable wall part of the wall const strenthen the home. If it braced or not it will not change being a gable. Follow the money.

This reminds me of a new industry developing, ie. asbestos, fire safety, indoor air quaity, mold etc…

If the OIR wants the gables as part of the wall const it should be on the form. Just like Question #8, it is specific, even if it conflicts with the FBC 2007. This is an insurance form, not code. The OIR can define, ask anything for insurance purposes. So if the OIR wants gables as part of the wall const, no problem, calculate. Let us see it in writing by the OIR or on the form.

Remember what history has taught about following blindly.

Ok. Not to insult anyone but I feel stupid having this conversation. So I called 6 General contractors (not al from FL), 8 architects, 2 engineers. When they got done laughing at the question they all answered the same way. A gable wall is a wall.

Guys, the form isn’t to teach us the basics. We should understand them.

We are supposed to be educated in construction terms and properties that make a home inspector a good inspector.

This is an insurance inspection not a construction inspection, not a code inspection and not a home inspection. Definitions of words can vary.

According to the form, a strap that wraps can also not be a wrap. A hip roof can be called flat and a one story raised home can be two stories.

That is the problem, it is WHO defines the words and who interprets the sentence. If you are going to fill out someones form should you not be using their definitions?

MSFH did not use gable ends in the calculations. This is possibly the biggest problem. Are roof trusses part of the roof structure? Do we not attach them on top of walls? Why would one truss be a roof structure and another a wall? These are all legitimate questions

Their only Walls at the end of a Gable…been building since I was 17 years old and I can’t believe anyone could possibly say any different.

The triangle between the Gable is a Wall, in every construction terminology book or reference I have ever seen anyway.

I wouldn’t even post in the Florida section, but it blows my mind anyone could possibly even hint differently.

I’m sure the insurance companies what to know if the roof is a Gable or Low Slope, the Gable Wall design is what’s gonna get the roof torn off.

Brilliant Preston…!

Like I said I don’t want to insult anyone …just help. Lime I said before I think people get confused by truss roof frame. By like I said, if it was a balloon frame or cathedral ceiling you would calculate it, right?

I would have calculated all walls, except that many were told it was not to be calculated, in the MSFH program. I do not believe most are confused by what it is, they are confused on how to report it on the form.

They are confused because the industry is, has and will re-defined and interpreted the words.

Should I dare bring up glass block, FBC defines it in CMU while the insurance industry has flip flopped on it several times. Had the insurance industry took a stance on it and left it at that it would have been accepted and we would have moved on.

You can not even blame the insurance industry, they have to cave to political mandates which come down from the people. There needs to be a final authority for a final answer, since we do not have one, people ask questions and get multiple answers.

We should not be concerned with the people asking these questions. We should be concerned with the ones that don’t bother to ask/learn. These are not construction inspections they are insurance surveys.

If anyone does these they should always take the latest training and stay atop of changes in the industry. It changes much faster than the construction industry.

I myself would like to know how the sides of a gable roof can be called hip. That to me is ridiculous.

Example a rectangle house with a gable roof and a gable wall on each short side. According to what I have seen in clips from courses the long sides are considered hip and that is just not so.

A construction inspection or insurance inspection the properties are the same. As everyone always says documentation on how you arrived is key. If your Gable Wall is from floor to ridge, framed or block, catherdral on the inside, no part would ever be in question as roof or wall. There are also plenty of framed walls that have attic space but the stud walls aree framed all the way up and blocked at ceiling height.

I do agree that questions are good and that is how everyone learns. I have always told everyone that if you stop learning you go backwards. I disagree that some people here are not confused. Also, these insurance inspection are baseed on construction properties and methods. By the end of the day, the insurance companies (or individual agents) may flip flop but the ruling will always be based on the facts.

Maybe this is one reason why MSFH is not used anymore. I have been on the message board now to actually get more knowledge from everyone else and also to offer mine to everyone. I know maybe some look at my background and because of that feel that it doesnt apply to these inspections…but where do you think the standards for these inspections come from. Maybe I should change my signature. LOL

If anyone knows about how a home is built it should be a person with your background. Always be proud of your accomplishments and do not let the one note charlies that are all of the sudden professionals get you down. Just look at it this way. What did you have to do to get your licenses compared to them.

And the bottom line is You (John) and I (and Bill York who by the way has big influence) agree no matter how much we go back and forth…Calculate Gable Walls

Why does no one seem to think that the OIR should be the Final Authority?

Why does no one attempt to force the Office Of Insurance Regulation to actually REGULATE?

They make the forms they should define the answer.

Now if each insurance company makes their own forms then they would be the ones to give the definitions but that is not the way it currently is.

I am proud but believe me I’m not 1 of those arrogant people. But I am available and here to share my knowledge. I literally have a tremendous amount of hands on experience I have personally done everything from dig a foundation To finishing touches and everything in between. I don’t think I know everything and I learn everyday. I think sometimes the people here are very close minded.

Got to go and do a home inspection and wind mitigation inspection in jupiter.

Firstly, the proper name for a “gable roof” is a double pitched roof with gable ends.

The reason that gable ends were not included in the wall construction type calculation was not because they were not considered a wall or part of the wall system. But rather, because depending on the construction method used in building the gable end they can suffer their own problems during major hurricane force high winds and perform much differently from the rest of the wall system on the same exact elevation. Because of this, gable ends were given their own question apart from the wall constructuin. They were not included in the wall construction type calculation because they had their own discount requirements to meet.

If the OIR accepts their consultant’s recommendation both of these questions may be removed from the next form anyway.

:DKeep killing the DEAD horse. At the end of the day the insurance winni will determine if the form is correct or not. In the mean time keep trucking and make lots of mojo. Confusion = $$$$ :smiley: