What's fair?

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#1

Originally Posted By: bnelson
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I blew it. I inadvertanly failed to mention (in the report) major rat poop and several corpses in a crawl space. The client had actually gone in the crawl space with me on this one, and we talked about the poop, the means of dealing with it, etc. But it didn’t make it on the report.


Cut to today, I got the call form the buyer. They're asking for me to pay for a crawl space cleanout and pest control fees. Is this par for the course? The price of learning? Or can I tell them to sit and spin, rats are people too...!

Initial estimate I got for the service was $2000.00

Yikes.

#2

Originally Posted By: rpalac
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I try to keep good notes and pictures to back them up. However, yes I think we all miss items on reports eventually.


It is difficult to deal with missed items. I limit my liability to the cost of the inspection in writing on my pre-inspection report. I also send a draft to the hiring individual for final approval. I include a statement to the effect of there are many items that we try to capture, if there is anything that you feel we have missed or should be included in this report please contact me before the final report is published Tommorow morning at 11:00 Am

It seems to help. I have had customers suggest rewording or items they felt strongly should be mentioned. I thank them and remind them that I work for them and I want them to feel comfortable with the report as long as it is factual.

#3

Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
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I don’t really want to play semanics at all, but although we are required to “report” certain conditions, there’s no real mention that the report has to be written…in otherwords, it can be verbal as well as written. Although tougher to prove in a court of law as it’s he said/he said type of argument, it may hold up, especially if the client admits he followed you into the crawlspace and you discussed it.


I know I forgot to write down one item on electrical on a home but I know we discussed it with the homeowner. I had an electrician along with me and we all sat and discussed it together, so if it ever came up in court, the homeowner couldn't come back and say that I hadn't told him at least.

--
Wisconsin Home Inspection, ABC Home Inspection LLC

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#4

Originally Posted By: rmoore
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Brandon…


Both the NACHI and ASHI SOP state that we are not required to determine the presence of rodents (NACHI I 3.2 I) or potentially hazardous animals (ASHI 13.2 B 11). I don't know how your contract reads but if it states that you inspect to those standards then I don't see how you should be held responsible. It's also not a WDO matter. It may have been better to put it in the report, but you did mention it verbally (and visually) as a "courtesy" to your client. It seems to me that his forgetfullness is at least, if not more, as liable.

Good luck with this.

--
Richard Moore
Rest Assured Inspection Services
Seattle, WA
www.rainspect.com

#5

Originally Posted By: jburkeson
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The major piece of equipment I use to make sure nothing is forgotten and jog my memory is my digital camera, I must take on average 100 photos on every inspection. About 15% of them make it to the report the rest are our documentation. The well known inspector who taught me said the photos you take on an inspection are primarily for your own protection, he felt it was not the wisest decision to turn over too many photos to your client, he called these photos evidence icon_lol.gif


If your PIA stipulates that the scope of the inspection will conform to the NACHI SoP you should be OK, if you really feel responsible, give him back the fee he paid, that is really all that he is entitled to.

--
Joseph Burkeson, RPI (Hooperette)

?Anyone who has proclaimed violence his method inexorably must choose lying as his principle.?
~ Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

#6

Originally Posted By: kshepard
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100 photos is a lot. Do you burn them onto cd, then file them? You must have quite the pile of cds. Can you at least burn rock’n roll onto the ends of them and listen to them in the car?

#7

Originally Posted By: dbowers
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Brandon -


Read your SOP then do what you want to do. Do you report if a cat or dog pooped in the yard, the basement or made a mess in the house. I don't.

I'd simply tell them "I don't do that, but I was nice enough to point it out to you while we were in the crawlspace. If it was important to you, why didn't you say something about it or discuss it with the seller".

Nice Try but no Brass Ring or Inspector To Bite Into This One Mr. Buyer!

#8

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Quote:
I don't really want to play semanics (sic) at all, but although we are required to "report" certain conditions, there's no real mention that the report has to be written


Kevin,

If you're inspecting to the NACHI standards, your reporting must be in writing. That is the same as with most other associations SOP also.

From Our SOP:

Quote:
1.3. An Inspection report shall describe and identify in written format the inspected systems, structures, and components of the dwelling and shall identify material defects observed. Inspection reports may contain recommendations regarding conditions reported or recommendations for correction, monitoring or further evaluation by professionals


The report is the document that states your findings.
#9

Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
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Finally!!! Someone called B.S…Was wondering how long that would take!

–
Wisconsin Home Inspection, ABC Home Inspection LLC


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#10

Originally Posted By: jpope
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It’s all about disclosure. The client knew about the condition prior to close of escrow. IMHO, that’s the bottom line.


Was it your job to include in your report the absence and/or presence (or possible presence) of vermin? This is for you to determine. The NACHI SOP does not imply that this is your responsibility. How about your contract? Is it too late to provide an addendum to your report?

My contract specifically states that if a condition is "missed," I am to be notified and given the opportunity to re-inspect the item and report the condition(s) prior to any repair or remediation.

For future reference, Joe is right, pictures, pictures, pictures. I too, take about 100 per inspection. These are my "notes."

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

#11

Originally Posted By: hgordon
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Brandon…it’s been 2 weeks almost since yu posted this…give us a followup.

#12

Originally Posted By: bnelson
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Thanks for the very useful, thorough advice, everyone. It became quite clear that, with the help of the SOP, I was in a position to easily argue my way out of this one… to say nothing of the fact that the client was looking over my shoulder in the crawl space and knew as well as I did that rats had taken up residence in a BIG way.


In the end, however, I found a PCO to do a $98 intitial visit with a $50 follow-up, and offered that to the buyers at my expense. They jumped at it, then wrote me a letter stating how professional I had handled it and sent a copy to their realtor.

I'll write it off as a marketing expense.

#13

Originally Posted By: Vickie Lewis
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Thanks for the input on my previous post.


The appropriate legal measures have been taken.

vl

#14

Originally Posted By: dfrend
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Mrs. Lewis, since you chose to bring this to a public forum, I will likewise respond here. Many of the “facts” you state are completely false. If you wish to take recourse, you are more than welcome, however make sure the “facts” you state have evidence. You state I did not do things that I did. They are in the report.


You quote me as saying things I did not say. Fact is, you have not even recieved a report on the structure yet. . As I stated to you in writing, every item required of me by standard WAS met. You were not in the room for EVERY detail of my inspection. You did not see everything I DID or DID NOT do.

I will refrain from further comments here until further discussion with my attorney.

#15

Originally Posted By: Vickie Lewis
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Daniel,


It is not my intention to sue you–so you don’t need an attorney.


You've claimed you've done your job--that you aren't responsible for looking at appliances, understanding electrical codes, or knowing how old or what kind of condition roofs are in.

If that is true, then your colleagues will tell me.

I am just looking for some feedback.

In my experience--with four home inspectors, I knew whether the heating system worked or not, I knew the age of the roof--I knew all those things.

You've told me that NACI doesn't require you to know those things.

I just want to know if that is true--maybe before, I hired a home inspector from a different organization.

I look for win-win situations. If NACI truly says that was what I can expect from a home inspection, than clearly, I will never hire a home inspector again, I will hire a contractor or someone else.

I was looking for expertise--you didn't even mention radon and you didn't even suggest a mold test. Personally, I find that frightening, and a health hazard.

If I am wrong--please--Dan's colleagues, tell me!

#16

Originally Posted By: dfrend
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I also never suggested that I am licensed in the state of Maryland to test for Radon. Had you waited for a written report which is the body of the inspection you would have seen comments to have any mold tested. Had you waited for a written report you would have seen other things addressed. I stand by my SOP’s and asked you to point out one instance that I did not meet them. You have yet to provide me with any deviations from my standards that would substantiate a refund.


I stand by my service, and stand by my statement that many of your statements are simply not true. I take offense to the fact that you call me a "dishonest business" simply because I refused to allow you a full refund. You would not offer any other alternatives. Your "quotes" are not "quotes" at all. I will defend my record in front of my associates.

#17

Originally Posted By: jpope
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Mrs. Lewis,


It's obvious that you are not satisfied with your inspector regardless of the facts of the case. However, I would like to offer you some general information.

Most inspectors do not inspect appliances. Some exceptions may be "built in" appliances such as the dishwasher, separate cook tops, microwaves, etc. Your pre-inspection agreement may address these items.

Personally, I do not check washers, dryers or refrigerators, and I do not check water or oven temperatures.

Additionally, the inspection process is designed to disclose (or uncover) potential deficiencies that may not otherwise be obvious to the buyer and/or seller. If you saw the "rot under the sink" yourself, it is no longer considered an undisclosed defect. Your inspectors comment that "there must have been a leak," is prudent as indicated by the rotted wood.

It is my opinion that you would be better served by waiting for your inspection report before you cast your judgement. If you are still dis-satisfied with the results, it may be wise to get a second inspection. Your main concern at this point should be securing your investment before the close of escrow.

Be aware, no two inspectors will give the same report. What you "gain" from one inspector, you may "lose" from another.

Good luck with your purchase.

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

#18

Originally Posted By: mcraig
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Mrs. Lewis:


You are asking other members of this association for answers to questions that we can not answer, We were not there at the inspection and do not know what was inspected. You must be aware that Home Inspectors all individualy have there own way of completeing an inspection and it also varies from state to state on requirements. Home Inspectors are generalist not specialist so we note things we see but we don’t allways have an exact answer for something. Like a doctor you can have your family doctor diagnose a simtum but it would be better to have a specialist handle the treetment. In my state we do not have to inspect all the appliances, I would not have inspected the washing machine and the dryer I am not required to. I also do not test for Mold I would tell you if I saw it but you would need a specialist to go any further. There are some home Inspectors that do testing for Mold and termites etc… but you would not have gotten a 300.00 inspection ( these services are a greater cost and all so time comsuming) So I hope this was of some help to you And as for other Home inspectors in other organizations there are good and bad Home Inspectors everywhere and using some one else may have had the same result. Also the better equiped and extra service Home Inspectors would have billed you closer to 450.00 and up.


Please give Dan a chance to get the report done and back to you before you condem him. icon_smile.gif icon_smile.gif

#19

Originally Posted By: jpope
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or termite as I am not legally qualified to make those determinations.


Radon , mold and WDO's fall under categories requiring specific certifications and/or licensing.

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

#20

Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
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I do not check appliances (refrigerators, stoves, microwaves or dishwashers). I also do not check washers or dryers.


Generally, as home inspectors we are not "code inspectors". We do safety and function inspections. Code inspectors are left up to government officials.

To be honest, I'm sure there are a few items that escape my detection on a home. No matter how hard any of us strive for perfection, it cannot be done.
As Jeff suggested, I would wait until I see the inspection report.

Radon and mold inspections are a personal choice by the homebuyers. I don't suggest them, but I don't talk anyone out of them either.

--
Wisconsin Home Inspection, ABC Home Inspection LLC

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