Wind Mit Scenario #13

(Actually scenario #14)

Yet another example of construction creativity: Photos depict strap embedded in the wall to the left of the truss, runs UNDER the truss and then up and attached to the right side. What say ye - Clip or not Clip?

clip

clip - it dosen’t go over the top and get nailed on the other side. Seriously it may be weaker than a clip! and proper blocking would have made it OK.

it is likely weaker than a proper clip. I am going by the definition of the form.

as should we all

I get the clip, But I questioned the application. If the clip (or strap) is installed improperly (say too far away from the truss) it would tend to act as a hinge and I would say Other: Improperly installed clips. Does this not result in the same fault?

I would have to select other. Then explain that the strap is embedded into the concrete more than a 1/4 inch from the truss and that it runs under and up over the truss.

Technically this set up is just as weak as a toe nail.

My opinion is… is any of your valid points actually on the form? No, Not in my opinion.

I only try to answer the questions as they are on the form. Good Luck.

It is my opinion that it meets the clip requirement as per the form you are signing. That does not mean it is correct it only means that it is what the form says.

I agree with Greg…‘other’ with photo & explanation.

I would say it meets the definition of a clip on the form. Include a picture and let them deal with it.

This exactly why we state approved training material with field examples. Yorks’ training, pgs 118/119 clearly (IMO) calls for improperly installed straps to be reported as ‘other’ with explanation due to unblocked space and not being installed straight up and down to properly transfer load. I understand that his course is not approved by the state of Florida yet, but it would be considered a valid industry reference, as would the InterNACHI training.

Even without the training material reference, calling this a clip because it meets the definition of 'metal attachments on every rafter/truss…'is, again IMO pretty weak. Imagine the Rube Goldberg contraptions that could fall under this same logic.

Good discussion, keep’em coming.

I agree they are installed incorrectly and will not hold as if they were. I do believe that the have a much greater uplift than toe nails though.

The problem with allowing them( the agent, CSR or underwriter) deal with is they do not know how to. They will rate them the same as Toe nails and move on.

Almost every home that has straps has several that are not installed within 1/4 inch. I almost never see proper blocking either. Since we are going by the weakest connection, no home in the eighties or early nineties should get any credit based on improperly installed straps. You have to go by what the form states, without further authorized guidelines we have no choice. IMO you would be covered if you reference York’s guidelines or quoted the form. Erroring in favor of the insurance companies is in some peoples best interest.

If you want to force them to have clear guidelines, you can force them to deal with it by giving credits that the FORM states are correct. If they see enough of these issues they will address them. There will always be some scenario that they do not address unless they track each one a publish an authorized opinion.

Like it or not we are forming opinions here. Unfortunately there is never a final answer.

When YOU the inspector tries to say one thing equals another you leave Yourself up to criticism and blame. If you only answer the questions that are asked then you can state what you observe. To those of you who want try to figure what equals what good luck. Your job is ONLY to observe and record. Why do you want to put your a s s on the line doing the insurers job? Maybe the same reason some of you want to turn in a 8 page 4 point form, I will never figure some of you out.

Thanks for the input folks - For your information - I have gone with Other: Improperly installed clips.

My reasoning is two-fold - 1. The truss is subject to movement 2. Don’t want to give false sense of security (be it the insurer or the insured).

I try to look at the intention of the question - Will the truss shift or move? If I was the insured or insurer would I want to know of a condition exists that would not provide the protection that the device is intended to provide.

Good luck I hope the customer does not try to sue you. I would hate to have to answer why I did not feel that B was not correct when clearly in you case B is the exact definition.

I do not know how they may feel about your opinion of the intent of the question. I believe they will want to know why you choose to decide the definition of the 1802 form was not good enough.

Also remember somewhere along the way during construction a County Code Inspector who will likely claim to have much more experience than you in these matters signed off and believed that they were properly installed or at least to accepted practices.

Just some thoughts to ponder. I believe if you guys answer more than what is asked and do more than what is asked you are opening yourself up to more liability and giving yourself extra work that is not required. Also if you answer the questions the same way as they are asked on the form each time then you can always have the same answers about why you answered what. Because that is what the form asks you. I believe it is your responsibility to answer the forms questions and not enter your opinions on the quality of the job. Do you check to tell if the impact doors are installed properly or can you even tell? Can you tell it the walls are built to code? Do you check? Was that skylight installed correctly that was done with the new roof but used the old skylight. In other words there are a million things you might notice no one is asking about them so do not give the info it only causes confusion. ==KEEP IT SIMPLE. :smiley:

Then Michael, would you also give credit for B in this scenario

yep if it is nailed to the truss. The form only asks what is there and how it is attached. You are putting your butt on the line when you attempt to decide if something is done properly when no one asks.

Remember that same photo is going to the underwriters. Let them decide. It meets the definition of B on the form and here is a picture of it.

If we’re talking liability and court cases the only safe thing to do (untill the state gives better guide lines) is answer to the form. In court cases if you answer the question as written you’ll be correct, unless you have the most worthless useless lawyer out there.

That is all I am trying to tell everyone. Why put youself out there when no one is asking you to. Just keep it simple for everyones sake and answer the questions that are there. If you answer just the questions and you are correct no one can blame you.