Could I get an opinion? I have a client who has qualified shutters all around. However, have a 12" x12" vent on a gable. Would this wipe out their discount? Thanks.
As of now I mark them as an unprotected opening. That may be the etc… on the form. Some others may not. I also put a note on the form to try to help the owner stating that this is the only issue. The underwriters can make up their own mind like they do with everything else. You should cover you a s s as far as I am concerned. To me water intrusion is the issue during a huge storm when the rain is going sideways. It will stop them from getting the credit. Tell them to shutter it and send you the photos then you can decide weather to change the form from the photo or weather you need to go back to re-inspect.
What do you all do when you see a window shaker mounted in a wall?
I call it an unprotected opening.
I consider it an opening. MSFH did, then did not, then did. Mike is right, aside from the shutter credit, it is the most likely place for water intrusion in a home during a storm.
I did think the reason was for potential wind penetration and uplift pressure on roof, but the water penetration is valid also. Thanks John and Mike for your response.
They had said that less than a 2 sq. foot opening would not be significant in terms of pressurization originally. Cover your butt, everything about these forms is subjective now. There are no authoritative answers to great questions like this.
Unfortunately for the customer I am sometimes defaulting to the lower discount level to protect myself. I often feel bad for the customer but without a place to get specific answers we’re left with no choice. It wouldn’t be that hard to create a website with those specifics. Thanks Brian.
William you are absolutely correct. That is the only safe way to do it. I hate telling people their steel doors are not impact tested and that they must provide proof.
From another perspective: How about you (or the insurance industry) providing proof that the steel doors are NOT impact rated?
Because these are accepted or rejected by the insurance companies. They will just reject the form. The agent will call you to complain, you will argue with them and the underwriter. The customer will be required to pay the increase.
That agent will not send work to you next time. You will be know as the inspector that does them wrong. It is in your best interest to be correct and have the proof.
Your right. The agent is really the priority when it’s all said and done. You try and get the most discounts but getting them right has to be number one.
Well just a while ago an agent who is a “friend” of the client called me back about the vents I told her had to be protected.
When I explained it to her the first time I sent her enlarged photos with the vents circled and asked her to ask her underwriters opinion on weather they were openings or not.
The first thing I asked when she called was what did the underwriters say. She did not respond and proceeded to tell me she called the big name of Wind Mits and they said it would not be a problem. I guess this new form is really helping.:roll:
I kind of chuckled and told her it did not matter to me what they do because about 95% of their inspections I come across are wrong. I again informed her to check with her underwriters and got no comment.
I will post if I ever hear from the underwriters but I do not think that is going to happen.
You seem to do a lot of wind mits, so i have a question for you, or anyone else. Its to the point where we really have to have proof that items like the garage door and shutters have been certified to meet or exceed Dade County requirements. Like you, or someone mentioned previously, if the owner cannot provide documentationon these items, then we can’t give them the benifit of the doubt even if we know darn well that the Gargage door meets code. My question is how are you reporting smaller items like front doors without glass, but without storm shutters. The doors still need to meet wind pressures and impact rating (wind borne debri). Inswing doors are more sprone to failure during storm events than outswing. I’m finding that many of the doors that I know have been tested and passed in wind tunnels, that were certified several years ago, and beared a sticker to that effect, have since been repainted or the sticker removed by the homeowner. Are you considering the opening unprotected if the owner cannot prove otherwise?
I’ll try to answer these. First, if the door swings inward it will not qualify no matter how it’s rated. It must be protected with a shutter system over the door.
Second, if there are any numbers, manufacturer name, or other data, etc. Go online to the State’s website for product approval and look it up. You will get the answers there.
Hope this helps.
If I or them cannot prove it I do not give the rating. I have a business and family to think about. I am there to verify the proof that is provided. I learned a while ago that my opinion on these matters does not matter much.
Many times I make notes on the form stating that the doors appear to meet the requirements but no proof could be provided by the homeowner. The insurance agencies can decide to be flexible or not. I just try to state only what I can prove.
jay- there are inswing doors meeting hvhz requirements, fyi
Yes, the door itself may meet the rating.
However, it is required to swing outward. At least that is my understanding.
If there has been a change to the outward swing requirement it is new to me.
I"m not sure it was a state wide banning. But they did away with inswing doors in my area(southwest Florida) 15 or so years ago. Security, wind protection reasons, and leak problems. Wind and rain would hit the doors breaking the seals and creating water penetration.
You can still go to Homestead and find new construction with doors that swing in. An they are appoving them. Go figure.
technically in new construction- doors should be outswing, as per code. there are impact rated inswing doors by several manufacturers. Owners of historical homes need to use these as they cannot change the doors direction