Question from a homeowner

Hi Folks -

I have searched the forum but didn’t come up with a clear answer to this question - one that has become of more interest to me today.

During today’s re-inspection a Citizen’s contractor (using a tablet computer version of the 2011 OIR form and admitting that they “hadn’t yet begun to use the new form”) told me that my glazed, fiberglass (non-impact) garage entry side door was not going to qualify for “Level A” even though it has a large-impact rated aluminum shutter over the entire door. The shutter is attached to the door, not to the structure. The inspector stated that the shutter had to be fastened to the structure, not to the door itself. The reason that the shutter isn’t fastened to the structure is that I need an exit door from the home during a storm event, and all the other openings are covered.

Is the inspector’s interpretation of the OIR requirements right, or not?

Does anyone have a citation that I could use to argue my point? I’ve spend hours reading the OIR documents and web-available training courses but haven’t been able to find an answer to this question.

Thanks!
A frustrated homeowner in St. Petersburg

It’s a grey area. It is not addressed direct;y on the form. But many of the wind mitigation courses and programs have.

Some of the inspectors that have participated in these programs may be able to enlighten you as to how these programs viewed this issue.

Regardless, shuttering the glazed portion only, does not protect the non glazed portion of the door.

If the reinspection firm has a policy of requiring the whole door to be covered, you are NOT going to get them to change their rating. Best to skip the fight and get a solid door. Also, depending on where you are may make a difference. Different rules apply to the HVHZ.

It’s money, but easier and less stress than fighting with the re-inspection firm.

Shutters must be properly attached to the structure.

How is your garage door rated ? I use mine as an exit point.
Shutters need to be properly attached to structure.
When was reinspection ? Wonder why new form was not used ?

And cover the entire opening, not just the glazed section.

A good rule of thumb: whenever there is a “grey” area, the answer will always favor the insurance company- not the homeowner.:shock:

Actualy this is fairly simple.
Is the shutter installed according to the engineered manufacturers specifications?
Find the manufacturers specifications for the the shutters being installed over garage door openings. If they are installed properly, argue it and you will win because you have proof. If they are not installed properly (and it sounds like they are not), then have them installed properly and pay someone to do a new inspection.
Mr. Miagi say “No gray area. Only black, white.”

Shutters must cover the entire opening, not just the glass and not just attached to the door frame itself. The inspector would be correct on this. Also, If the inspection was done after Feb. 1 they would be using the new form, but that would not change the outcome on this anyway.

The building code also alows for means of egress to be covered during a threat of a storm.

The garage entry (side) door is FBC wind-load rated at ±67 psf, but it is not impact rated (it was installed in 2002), but from the comments it appears that doesn’t matter since the shutters have to be attached to the structure.

The re-inspection was done yesterday (Feb 13) - and the contractor was using a Fujitsu computer tablet with a form provided to them by the inspection company in Tampa. They indicated that the inspection company “hadn’t rolled out the new form yet” and that they would transcribe the results onto the new form before submitting them to Citizens (in my mind this is just another opportunity for errors and omissions to creep in).

I’m considering replacing the door with an impact-rated door and just be done with it.

Not on a REINSPECTION, those type of inspections are hired guns, in my opinion. I have been there and done that, proved them wrong… I did have some issue’s but, old form would have passed me. New form was used on a 10/11 reinspection, after doing alot of homework, I went after them with my case…shall I continue… It was like buying a new car, do your home work and go get them.

The door will solve one issue, but the garage door will create another.
What else do you have as far as clips, single wraps, new roof, etc.?
I guess the company is scouring this forum waiting to see who will give away a free executable 1802! :mrgreen:
I have had mine since last year.

I’m in good shape as to the rest of the property. Clips were already installed; did a new custom tile roof in 2003; re-nailing the 1/2" sheathing 4" on edges / 6" in the field with 8d ring shank. According to the city building department it was the first home they are aware of in St. Petersburg to have SWR - I used full coverage peel and stick under the base sheet / cap sheet underlayment system which itself is installed with 1 5/8" tin caps and 8d ring shank nails. Tiles are attached to the cap sheet with large paddy PolyPro 160. Gable ends are braced. According to my calculations the center design uplift pressure for the roof system is > 88 psf, so in a wind event most likely the clips will fail before the roof assembly does. Or maybe the house will get hit with a tidal surge and just move off its foundation…but the roof structure should still be in one piece somewhere in the next county.

All the windows are impact resistant / ±60 psf and also installed an HVHZ garage door. I thought I was doing everything right.

I have all the permits / contracts / engineering drawings / Product Approvals and/or NOA’s for the work that has been done - along with pictures of the roof being installed, so there weren’t any issues with documentation.

This was my fifth inspection since 2003, the second re-inspection by Citizens (supposedly they “lost” the last one), and the only inspection that flagged the garage entryway door as an issue.

Travis,
If you replace the door with a non-glazed door then your problem can be solved.

Otherwise the shutter needs to attach to the structure.

For the inspector to be using the wrong form is absolutely unacceptable.

Hell, there is your case right. wrong form. I’m not even an inspector and can get the proper paper work,(have them call me I’ll send them a copy) They can not get proper paper work and you want them to inspect your house, ask your agent about that…(hired guns) I said it before I smell a fish. Going to be a interesting year.
As for garage door, I meant overhead, mine is rated so that will be my exit.

Thanks for this idea Christopher - but now I’m confused. Are you saying that a non-impact non-glazed door doesn’t require opening protection - or does the door have to be impact rated?

I agree with you about using the old form for data collection - that seems a very bad practice!

Apparently I am not the only one who is confused by the new OIR form. I don’t know if these comments resulted in any change to the form, but they make for interesting reading:

One or the other. I would go for the non-glazed rated door as you will have means of egress in the event of a power failure.

As for the main garage door, there should be a sticker on the door that says Dade County NOAxx-xxxxxx
Also, when was the door installed?
And I think you mean “SWR”.

For some real excitement, read every comment on that site…then…if you drink liquor…pour yourself a tall one!!:stuck_out_tongue:

As I understand it, as I have spoken to a few of the individuals, one of which was a homeowner with regards to roof geometry, a majority of them were tossed in the trash.

On the new form the non glazed openings that are not rated still allow for a hurricane rating. The ideal solution is to install a shutter that is rated or an impact rated door.

Well my premium went from $1600 to $4700 agent could not answer questions, reinspection co. got an attitude with my calls, I did my home work. Still not convinced 1 nail will make a difference. When all done $2300 premium, pull a string walk out my garage door, if we lose power. Maybe I will be out of town when storm hits and forget to close hurricane rated windows, oops over valued home. WHO WINS ?