1802 rev (2/10)
In York’s class in Orlando this past fall, same discussion. His advice was use the, Section 3 (E) other, and state why, therefore eliminating having to down grade the connection, (2 +1) =3 nails vs new form (3 nails+1) = 4 simply state " wrap with improper nailing 2 one side 1 other side. Let them decide what the form is asking for, or will allow.
Well then I believe the client would get no credit instead of a clip credit.
Will Mr. York sign his name to the forms with his suggestion?
My advice is to use his “opinions” as guidance. Remember your name is the name on the bottom of the form.
York was the instructor; I did not see you there! BUT your input at 41 is one of a know it all as far as I can see on this message board! Thanks for your advise, and duly noted!
By selecting a clip and submitting a photo of an improperly nailed wap is better? That was his Point! LMAO
I am quite aware f who Mr. YORK is. You won’t see me there. The form is clear on the matter. The wrap is not improper if it was done to code at time of construction. I Am sure your years of experience doing wind mits has prepared you for all you may encounter. How many have you performed and are you a GC or hi?
The rationale behind using “other” instead of just down grading the connection is;
· The OIR definition of a wrap, and the code requirements should be the same. If all that inspect would do this,” they the OIR” and the insurance companies as well as the building code will be on the same page possiably some day.
· By identifying a wrap with improper nailing by the OIR standards, then submitting a picture of the wrap, is correct.
· By just down grading to a clip when you see a wrap with incorrect nailing and submitting a picture of the wrap. You are not submitting a photo of a clip, The words and picture are a conflict.
· The OIR needs to be on the same page as the code! No games of words. Not to mention the 1802 in general.
· This “other” designation was to be for areas that inspectors found conflict with what they were seeing and the form was asking for. My Understanding (for future data compiling by the OIR) and possibly form changes.
Wind Mits and insurance are about statistics not code acceptance. We need to stop comparing the two. Straps are not listed on the form for good reasons. They give credits for Clips and WRAPS, by their definitions not yours or the code. If you want to do them correctly you should learn what is in industry standards, not what you read into the form or what you think is correct. You can still can decide for yourself after knowing all the facts, but you are not doing yourself, your customer or the industry any favors by thinking you know more than industry experts.
You want respect as a Home Inspector or contractor? Then take the time to learn the correct way to do them, until then you are just making us all look bad. Everyone that gets done incorrectly fuels re-inspections and fuels more statistics. More re-inspections bring in more people(ie, claims adjusters), more of these people start taking a bigger piece of the pie, then it is less for you and me.
Like it or not this is what has happened and what is happening.
[FONT=Times New Roman]The rationale behind using “other” instead of just down grading the connection is; [/FONT]
· [FONT=Times New Roman]The OIR definition of a wrap, and the code requirements should be the same. If all that inspect would do this,” they the OIR” and the insurance companies as well as the building code possibly one day will be on the same page. [/FONT]
· [FONT=Times New Roman]By identifying a wrap with improper nailing by the OIR standards, then submitting a picture of the wrap, is correct.[/FONT]
· [FONT=Times New Roman]By just down grading to a clip when you see a wrap with correct code nailing and submitting a picture of the wrap. You are not submitting a photo of a clip, The words and picture are a conflict.[/FONT]
· [FONT=Times New Roman]The OIR needs to be on the same page as the code! One day this might happen. No games of words. Not to mention the 1802 in general. [/FONT]
· [FONT=Times New Roman]This “other” designation was to be for areas that inspectors found conflict with what they were seeing and the form was asking for. My Understanding (for future data compiling by the OIR) and possibly form changes.[/FONT]
You got to get your terminologies down or these ins. co. inspectors will rip you a new arse…
It seems Home inspectors like to give credit where credit is due…
Until the form is perfected…there is some wiggle room.
If a reinspection is required let the ins co. pay for it.
You would be submitting a photo of a clip, as defined on the wind mit form.
“Metal attachments on every rafter/truss that are nailed to one side (or both sides in the case of a diamond type clip) of the rafter/truss and attached to the top plate of the wall frame or embedded in the bond beam.”
The code will never match the wind mit form, when buildings old and new are the same as needed for discounts there will be no need for the form. Again wind mits are about statistics not code. The statistics will change faster than the code.
SInce you are not gonna listen to me please listen to John.
Sorry guys
Let me re word this;
· [FONT=Times New Roman]The OIR definition of a wrap 3 nail one side 1 the other[/FONT]
· [FONT=Times New Roman]If not nailed correctly:[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]A) Down grade to a clip[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]B) Or by York, use the Other and state wrap with improper nailing ( 2 nails one side 1 the other.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]This “other” designation was to be for areas that inspectors found conflict with what they were seeing and did not want to down grade the connection to a clip. My Understanding (for future data compiling by the OIR) and possibly form changes. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]As you know MSFH recognized 2+1 as a wrap. [/FONT]
Yes, I did use the word strap in lew of wrap… My apologies
less words easier to understand?
John and Mike are you saying York was wrong in stating this?
I do not agree with his opinion.
Opinions are like a-sholes. Everyone has them.
Just answer the question on the form. Do not try to figure things out. If it meets the requirements of an answer then it is what it is.
What we are talking about is a CLIP by defination of the form.
No not stating this at all. Simply telling you if you give “other”, many will not get any credit. Personally, I mark clip with a note. If you listened in class you would have got more info than is in the manual.
Finally:p: The Meeker come up with a great argument!!~! There you go Meeker!! Get them. I like your statement!! Go Meeker go!!:roll:
“When in doubt call the MEEKER!!!”:roll:
Just trying to wake up these guys.
They need to try to stop showing everyone how damn smart they are and simply answer the questions on the form. Anything else leaves them open to criticism. Trying to explain why you marked one item when something meets the definition of an answer already on the form is a losing battle.
John,
Be sure of this, I have listened in his last class on how to fill out the revised 1820. This is how I came to this conclusion. I now see that general consensus is just fill out the form. Duly noted and accepted. I thank you and Mike for your input!
Looks like that was a poor idea / comment on York’s part, to have stated that in the class on how to fill out the 1802.
:roll:CITIZEN did not give credit for nail size because there was no picture shown a missed nail. Well sometimes you cannot find a missed nail. The framer was so good he did not miss out a single nail. So what do you do in that case??:-;; Can you question the decision? I figured it was a 8 penny nailllll](*,)
What say you??
Tell them it is not visible and according to the form not nessary because it is not visible. Tell them if they do not accept your report then they must send an inspector out and they must pay. I Doubt it will work because they are morons and do not know the rules. Please let me know if it does work.
I say look harder or it is unknown. Sections 3-9 must have photo evidence.
Sorry
On the straps or wraps if not done properly, I note under my photo (metal strap equivalent to clips. ) and have not had a problem with that statement