Good reference work Mr.Jonas.
I am looking for a chimney as the one that was being discussed.
A free standing chimney with that much deviation or lean.
Not locked or bonded into a wall that was built to aid in its weight distribution.
If you find such-an example please post it to me , email it to me.
I would like to understand why it was built that way.
I have rebuilt chimneys like that and had photo,s.
As explained before and will do it again.
not all people can be painted with the same brush,
I suffer from a form of dyslexia.
Caused from extreme head trauma 41 years ago.
6 Nero surgeons putting the dormer together and almost lost my life and to this day I still have problems when tired.
I aid my mother 84, legally blind, 3 strokes and I could go on.
Point being we all are here to listen to one another without knowing one another.
Patients is needed for as in life there are stronger weaker but there rule in life is treat others as you would care be treated.
The Shepard left his flock alone to find the 1 lost.
Makes perfect sense to me.
We are a flock of HI,S trying to help the ones lost.
Everyone has a point to accept and use as life lessons.
[size=3]LEANING CHIMNEYS[/size]
A combination of erosion, acid attack and salt crystallisation are liable to cause a chimney to lean (see illustration). The BRE Good Repair Guide says any chimney that leans more than 1mm in 100mm is unsafe. This is perhaps a little too cautious and where historic buildings are concerned, one may wish to apply the middle third rule to the shaft wall around the flue. Thus where the shaft wall is half a brick thick, a lean of 35mm could be tolerated, but if in any doubt, consult a structural engineer.
Where repairs are impossible, the remedy of last resort is to rebuild the stack from some convenient point - say the top section only or completely from below roof level - using as much salvaged material as possible. To comply with The Building Regulations any rebuilt section will have to have an internal diameter of 200mm (although 185mm is acceptable for a relined flue), so some ingenuity may be required to incorporate a flue liner within the original stack dimensions.
If it is decided that the existing lean on a stack can be tolerated the factors inducing the lean should be stabilised. The flue should be lined (see Parging Failure below, and broken or decayed bricks should be cut out and replaced. In slender stacks it is a wise precaution not to take out too many bricks at a time (sometimes no more than one at a time) and the new mortar must be allowed sufficient time to achieve strength before proceeding with the next area of cutting out. Cracks should be repointed and all ‘defective’ mortar raked out and repointed.
‘Defective’ mortar may be taken to include that which is loose, crumbling or cracked. As a general principle (and this applies to all repointing, not just on chimneys) if a lime mortar is difficult to remove, repointing is not necessary. Any hard cement mortar will be more difficult to remove. Take care not to damage the edges of the brick or stone. Rake out to a depth of 25mm or twice the width of the joint whichever is the greater; do not rake out deeper than 35mm. The strength and lime content of the mortar will depend on the hardness of the brick or stone, in accordance with usual good practice for repointing. If it is necessary to add some cement to the mix, use sulphate-resisting cement. Similar mixes will be used for rebuilding stacks.
Once a leaning stack has been stabilised, some periodic checking (for example during quinquennial inspections) is advisable.
Chimneys on the interior have been built every which way but loose in the past.
Flues or no flues, it did not matter.
Slight bends in a chimney on the way up to the roof never affected a thing regarding draft or draw or build up of creosote as long as there was not shelf inside the chimney to help accummulate the stuff.
I have seen more crooked chimneys in my life than I can throw a stick at.
Had one in 1989 built by our own mason on a weekend, and when I walked the second floor of the school and looked out the window, I could see two corners of the chimney. Might have been plumb, but had a 2" twist from the roof to the top.
I had him take it down and start over.
The guy was an excellent Mason too. Sh$t happens. He never stood back a few feet to look at his work.
I have a picture of crooked chimney in the attic, but is on file on a disc somewhere. I would have to dig it up. It had flues in it too.
Unlike what was said, I have never seen a chimney that was!!! Plumb.
Yes thank you all for your correction. POINT TAKEN.
Now I will explan I did not get to finish correcting my post and had taken my computer off line to fix what was about to be my post.
I then got mad A JJ for his attacking without questioning was there a mistake made.
A MISTAKE…
LIKE SOME DO HERE AS I NOTICE They attack with out question…
HAD MADE A BAD POST?
YES.
I was in the process of taking it down after going back to the photo/
YES.
Did it get posted anyway?
YES.
Did members jump all over it ?
YES.
SO LETS STOP THERE IF YOU WANT.
I will explain the problem that took 20 hours to fix,and is partly fixed.
I will come back to explain.
Now chimneys plumb ‘‘they should be plumb as they can be offered by your mason.
and if not some type of support underthemt to carry the loads if they are being carried or offset by a distance of ‘‘x’’.
As in the pictures you just supplied in the link MR.CYR…
Why they degrade, I know why and also lack the total theoretical explanation and learning everyday to explan myself better.’‘learning’’…
Thats all.
Please excuse my learning.
I think it would be more of a quality to ask.‘’ did one understand what had been posted and ask for explanation.
To simple to be humble?
For the picture posted, it was mis-represented’‘Thats why I went back to renew my post’'.
The image I looked at I did not spend enought time on.
My fault?
YES
I went back after one minute of though.
It was to late the damage was done.
For my graphical drivers are giving me problems along with ASUS chip-set on my new mother board m4a785m.
For 7100 and 7600 series.I am looking further into this problem.
I willpost on computer portion of message board.
So please excuse my post being unfinished and unsupported by example.
I am learning to do this now.
But the chimney in the attic (in post#1) was purposely installed with an integrated lean. I see these a lot in older homes. I have to go with the belief that the mason purposely brought the chimney away from the ridge line of the roof.
Sorry Bill I am wrong in pointing out that it was from ground movement.
>In the picture I thought I saw the bottom of the chimney on the unfinished basement floor.
>It was on my-PC and I was having problems with my graphic drivers from NVIDIA interfacing with ASUS chip-set for ATI motherboard.
I was confused and was entering a post and went back to review the photo for it was a simple conclusion and wondered why no one picked up on it.
The first, wrong answer and conclusion to that questions post was lanched by my mistakenly hitting the wrong key.
Away it went and wow did I hear about it.
I also posted today that I was tired from being out with my mother ,legally blind ,3 strokes in 2 years,and I am the care taker and getting tired some times.
I will stay away when tired.
>I should have noted that it was in need of repair badly.
>Also I have never seen a bend without arching or support of some kind in my area.
>I have repaired chimneys that have deviated off there plumb or building line by as much as 14 inches and seen many leaning chimneys but ;
>I should have posted NOT inside a attic as that one, nor with that much lean.
I will say I am sorry to you for that misguided answer.
I am reviewing the photo now and on my laptop that I just repaired with new motherboard , ram, CPU, keyboard for all the very symptoms that my PC is giving me now.
Graphical errors.
again sorry to all that took it to heart.
As posted before;
if you think some one posts a mistake its better to see why for answers instead of jumping to conclusions.
More commonly in my area, with a plethora of 100+ year old homes, the chimney is moved *closer *towards the ridge to be contained within a single plane of a multi-planed roof.
From this morning…
With the exception of needing some minor pointing and flashing repairs, it is in overall excellant condition for being 123 years old (built 1887)…
Edit to add note: 2 story home w/full basement plus walkup attic.
Mr.Cyr.
I do thank you for that effort you made in addressing the photo and information.
As to your statement about plumb.
> I still to this day use plumb lines when building chimneys. except for above roof line and under 4 feet or 12 to 15 courses.
The reason being, as you mentioned about having your mason rebuilt from deviation.
It leaves a slim chance of going or wondering to the point where you can not cobble back to level or plumb.
> I will take the time to make a gig to allow the masons and myself the ease and speed of building using a plumb line.
>It also allows you to build and referance that structor as streght as possible.
> I still make a ‘‘story poll or in cases a story board’’ as shown to me may years ago for referencing course lines when you can not just use math or masons tape to conduct a repair.
> An example ‘’ for cobbling.’’
I have no doubt that your work is proper.
> I am only using this as an example of my building practices .
Sometimes by getting to emotionally involved in an honest mistake ( as I have made) well tend to draw ones eye and thought away from the real point at hand.
> The photo.
> Yes I posted a mistake.
I will disagree with your point on the build up of cerisote in any thing that is not plumb and smooth as compared to a chimney that is stepbuilt for angle.
I could be wrong and I am stating my evidence on visual experiences conducted during my build carrier.
Chimney with no liners ( open bed jointing and untooled jointing) also with exposed brick
and no liners.
1>They were all built up with oils the byproduct of oil burning furnace.
The masonry absorbed the oils to a depth of over 5 to 6 inches in a double width brick wall… the chimney built in the mid fifty’s.
They were so dangerous and furnace installers told then to rebuild above roof line before they would install liners.Case 1
2> I have repaired, inspected , cleaned and rebuilt many wood burning chimneys, also the bed joint and butt jointing would absorb any creosote and be dirtier than lined chimneys.
Lined chimneys where easier to clean being smooth and had less chance of animal habitation due to the fact the the liners openings were smaller than unlined brick chimneys.
They were easier to control drafting with liners exposed 4 to 8 inches as opposed to unlined chimney’s the have a tendency to back-draft due to no liners installed and the crown was insufficient and no rain notch.
I am only pointing out my observations so please do not feel that I am being condescending.
Its just my view.
They were more
Good eyes Peter. That is the flashing (chimney related) that I was referring to that needed repair. Roof replaced about 6 years ago. Also, no kickout flashing anywhere, lot’s of damage to the “original” siding because of the lack of it.
And for another persons benefit, note in pic #2 that the floor joist support beam is resting on a ledge of the chimney. The beam is not supporting the chimney.
I thought so. For the life of me I can’t understand why roofers do this. Re-flashing chimneys can be a great add on to the cost of a roof. The last one I did I charge $500 for a chimney about that size.
By the way, I see a lot of crooked chimney’s in my area too. As many have already said, it was done to avoid framing.
Can you imagine 100+ years ago framing a house? No tape measure, no skill saws just a good eye, a few hand tools and a lot sweat. The last thing they worried about was where the chimney was going to come through the roof. I can hear the framers now. F*ck it ! That’s the masons job !
Mr…Jonas look at the nice brick work and the straightness of the chimney.
Bricks are not steeped. It is a fine example of proper work as from what I see.
Hope I am on the right page.
Sorry for being so abrupt and I am offering my apologies for something gone a-rye.
If you ever see me post something questionable or anyone else for that matter, just get back to me or whom ever .
People make mistakes.
I myself have learned to accept my shortcomings.
Our Father humbled me years ago.
I did need it.
I am going to point out crown on chimney.
> It should be caped with cement and expand the perimeter by 4 inches and be 3 to 4 inches thick and tapper to the edge.
> Also a rain notch under the crown to make rain drip away from brick face.
I can not see flashing and how it was started , should be at the bottom. and work up. Wrist locked bent .
I also see low profile vent and to me they are not sufficient in breathing and cover with snow easily and are used by small birds for nesting. Other rodents can easily strip away screening and enter into attic. raccoons, skunk, other mermen.
I see only one vent and will comment that every 300 sq feet rule.
Not being picky but I am here and going to post.
I see gum-edge ‘‘good thing’’ but the line in the gum edge is not continuous and should conect with each gum-edge.
Not a big deal.
Jeff, sure looks to me that the portion of the chimney above the roof is of a recent couple decades ago compared to the 137 year old below the roof line.
Look at the old brick above the flashing at the base flashing area.
Looks like that is where the newer part was rebuilt and then cut in a reglet to install the side counter flashing as Peter noted.
The main point I was making was that the 132 year old section of angled brick chimney was built by design, and other than normal wear and tear, was not falling or pulling the roof or house over, as someone else indicated was the case if it was not plumb.
Thanks Jeff. Thought it was fitting for this thread. Took me a while to find them.
And you are right, a crooked built chimney does not pull a structure roof or anything else around it.
It just stays crooked unless it exceeds the center of gravity from the centerline. :mrgreen:
I guess the bottom line is that an out of plumb built chimney is just an aesthetic issue more than structural.
They still work as intended by design of the flue size and the height.
I will come back and post a defect in the chimney cap and flue extensions above the cap requirement.
That chimney lean is a tad different than I’m used to seeing. I usually find the leaning chimney’s corbelled in the attic. If you look closely at your image, the mason simply added an excessively sloped mortar joint in one location (see arrow) and all other brick courses automatically followed the lean of the one sloped course. And this particular chimney is sloped towards the ridge instead of away from the ridge. It must be an aesthetic thing as for the looks of a chimney from the exterior. It wouldn’t look good penetrating the outer edge of the roof and the termination of the chimney (at the ridge line) is much easier to bring it to code… above the roof line.
