With all due respect... really

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1

Originally Posted By: bob haller
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I think your industry has a problem.


I am a sellar, and the first sale fell thru after the home inspection report.

I did have the furnace serviced, for the second time in a year. Also had a gas valve on the brand new hot water tank replaced although in both cases the professional furnace guy and plumber found no leaks or troubles:(

I did update all the basement outlets to GFCIs, including the sump pump outlet after the first inspector swore up and down it was necessary.

But honestly other than these items I didnt do anything else.

Home inspection number 2.....

This inspector was more critical than the first. Odd thing if you put the inspections side by side you would think they are 2 different homes:(

Somehow one would think they would at minimum be similiar. The second fellow marks anything not perfect as defencies, maintence isnt a catergory for him. I mentioned NACHI, he doesnt believe in your group:( sorry.

I called the local building inspector, a single floor joist was cut 50 years ago for the bathtub drain. Its like this in every home in the plan. The home inspector called for jackposts. The building inspector said not necessary. He remarked I hate home inspectors, I get these calls every day from sellars, inspectors are trying to get everything updated to todays standards in old homes, which isnt possible. Incidently this didnt come up on the first inspection.

This time I am replacing a perfectly good smp pump. adding two unnecessay jackposts, and replacing a working fine bathtub drain.. inspector wrote up barrel trap as obsolete and being green. he fails to realize copper turns green naturally, just look at the statue of liberty. So far I will have spent a couple grand fixing stuff that wasnt broke:(

The second buyer nearly backed out too. I happen to know a relative of his.

Now certinally everyone needs to get a good safe home. But perfection isnt possible.

Someday a government bureaucrat will be selling a home and BOOM your industry will be put under tight control. Or the media will get involved. Home inspection reports should at least look similiar:(

Either way its sad. People need pros to inspect houses but it appears theres a wide discrepancy on just how things are graded.

Its as bad for the buyer as sellar. The buyer may walk away from a fine home scared off by a over zealous inspector. If this keeps up homes will NEVER be resold.

I appreciate the warm frioendly reception here and the attempts to help me do whats right.

I just think the industry has some issues that may come back to bite it....

2

Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
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When we don’t write something down, that’s exactly when it comes back to bite us.


Is anyone required to make all the corrections we note? Certainly not. We give a report as to what is wrong with the home. It’s up to our client to determine what’s imperitive to fix and what isn’t. Some clients feel that exterior and basement outlets should be gfci protected regardless of the year the home was built. Others could care less. We let our clients make the choice.


Here’s the way I feel. GFCI outlets were needed 80 years ago, they just didn’t know it at the time.


It’s true that a joist may have been cut incorrectly 50 years ago, and is holding up just fine. Is it right? Nope. That’s why we write it down.


Some client will come back to some inspector someday and say, "hey, this is wrong and I want you to pay to fix it! Do you think your city building inspector will pay for it? Hell no! The home inspector will have to.


I know an inspector in my area that is getting sued right now for $10,000 because the floor squeaks, and he didn't report that the floor squeaks in one area on his report. Yes, that's right, floor squeaking. His client had a flooring contractor come in and tell him that the only way to cure it was to replace the wood flooring.

The day they stop frivilous lawsuits, is the day we can stop writing everything down.

--
Wisconsin Home Inspection, ABC Home Inspection LLC

Search the directory for a Wisconsin Home Inspector

3

Originally Posted By: cmccann
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Nice Kevin, eusa_clap.gif

–
NACHI MAB!

4

Originally Posted By: Vince Santos
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Kevin is all too correct in his post. It’s funny how inspectors can never seem to please everyone. If we write up things we are consider a deal killer and too picky. If we fail to write things down we are considered incompetent and get sued. What’s the right thing to do? Give your client the best inspection you are capable of and never pull punches when completing the report. I usually tell my client that no home is perfect no matter if 100 years old or just built.


I personally would not recommend GFCI on a sump pump.

--
Desire is half of life, indifference is half of death.
--Kahlil Gibran

5

Originally Posted By: bob haller
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I see your point. I guess mine is that joist was cut properly and passed inspection at the time the home was built. by 50 years if it was going to cause a problem it would of already occured. You cant build a home without drilling holes and cutting wood.


Strange thing, I left a loose electrical box with a ceramic socket in the garage, the entire thing is crooked and loose. Boxes werent screwed in place, they were nailed and this one is loose. I will fix it before closing.

neither inspector caught it....

This inspection had about 15 referals for professional engineers to check so and so...

If the sale falls thru I will rent the house. I am tired of fixing what isnt broke:(

Latest inspector said alumnimum trim siding isnt new and therefore needs cleaned and all repainted.

I could easily spen another 15 grand and there would still be a list iof defencies:(

6

Originally Posted By: bob haller
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Perhaps its time for a SUPER insurance policy on home condition? 5 Grand would buy you coverage for all sorts of exotic problems.


The trouble is today no one wants to be responsible for themselves.

Blame EVERYONE ELSE, but me:(

7

Originally Posted By: jremas
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Different states have different requirements as to what they expect the home inspector to write up. In general, a home inspection is not code enforcement nor should codes ever be referred to.


There is no such thing as pass or fail for any home inspection, it is always what the buyer is willing to accept. Once in a while the buyer will say to me " now whatever you find wrong, they have to fix, right?" My response is always "absolutely not!" It is up to the buyer to decide what they are uncomfortable with and what they may want to renegotiate.

GFCI protected outlets are a requirement for goverment loans such as VA and FHA and must be in place prior to closing. HOWEVER, they are not required but RECOMMENDED to the buyer as a safety enhancement. When the home was built, they were not a requirement if it is an older home and no one has the right to force you to install them. There are some municipalities that send out their own inspector and will force you to make changes if you are selling the home. This is the exception and not the rule. If everyone had to update their home to meet the code the entire nation would be in an uproar. No one can force any seller to install them. It is all up to the negotiating process. Market conditions will dictate what the seller is willing to do.

The problem with most right ups in an inpsection report is consistency like you referred to. These write up items are for the buyer to absorb so they can make an educated decision. As inspectors, it is our job to educate the buyer, no to coach them on what should be done. Buyers must also be educated to the fact that they are not buying a new home that they had constructed and their expectations need to be lowered. No home is perfect even if new; an older home will have some issues that are normal for the age of the home. Some code violations can be addressed but written up as safety concerns rather than code violations. Say for instance an older, above ground deck was built during an era of no or lax codes with handrails and railings that had openings that were 6". I would write that up as a safety concern (which it is) and recommend that the rails not be able to pass a 4" sphere between them.

If everyone followed the standards of practice for their organization you may just have a more consistent inspection report. This is no guarantee but a start. Some guys are weak and will write up everything just to cove their butt. A good solid inspection and a solid inspection agreement will reduce the litigation threat.

As a seller, you made a choice to make the repairs, maybe your market conditions swayed you that way. Take care of your home, update it and keep it clean. A good disclosure statement will also keep some of these items from popping up for renegotiating. This is why we push the pre-listing inspection.

In the end, you are correct. There are problems with the industry, consistency being one of the major complaints by the real estate community. A good inspector can write a lot of defects in his report but if he knows how to present them to the client and if needed the seller (with the seller's permission) so everyone can have a clear understanding of the situation and why it is a defect. Communication is paramount.

OK, enough said by me. I hope this helps.

--


Jeff Remas
REMAS Inspections, Inc.
Northeastern PA & the Poconos
www.NEPAinspector.com

570-362-1598

8

Originally Posted By: Scotty Lee
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Bob,


Ask yourself this question: When you buy your new home would you want the items found in the inspection that are safety concerns repaired?

50 years ago we could also use lead paint.
50 years ago we used asbestos all over a home.
50 years ago we did not have grounded outlets in homes.
50 years ago we used chlordane to control termites.
50 years ago we used lead arsenic for pest/rodent control.

It is a fact that you can have two, three or four different home inspectors inspect a home and all of them will most likely find something that the others did not. Most of the time this has to do with experience, the more experienced inspectors tend to find more because they have seen similar conditions at sometime during previous inspections.

Hope it works out for you.

9

Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Bob H,


Seeing that you want to sell the home "as is". Why not refuse any further repairs, pay to have your own inspection performed and tell everyone making offers the home will be sold as is, or not at all, using the inspection report you paid for as part of the sellers disclosure. That does not mean they can not have an inspection done, just you will not be responsible for any further repairs.

Joe Myers

10

Originally Posted By: jpeck
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jmyers wrote:
Bob H,

Seeing that you want to sell the home "as is". Why not refuse any further repairs, pay to have your own inspection performed and tell everyone making offers the home will be sold as is, or not at all, using the inspection report you paid for as part of the sellers disclosure. That does not mean they can not have an inspection done, just you will not be responsible for any further repairs.

Joe Myers


AND, that if you don't price it lower, you will likely have a lot of people walk away.

An "As Is" inspection simply means they have the right to have it inspected, and, IF NOT SATISFIED (gee, that is dirty and I'M NOT SATISFIED) they can simply walk away, no other reasons need be given.

For a buyer, I recommend "as is" inspections for that very reason - easy out if you see something you don't want.

As a seller, I would want to have a better hold on them, but if your house has problems, and you do not address those problems, you also have a disclosure issue. And when you disclose those problems, be prepared to lower the price. (And, if you do not disclose, be prepared to be sued later.)

--
Jerry Peck
South Florida
11

Originally Posted By: rmoore2
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Kevin,


you hit it right on the nail head !!!


go get em…every industry has its problems…ours has too…but most HI’s are honest…and straight with people…AND It’s up to the homeowner to fix things… …short story…my brother in-law was building a house around 4000sq ft…he had a home inspector check it,


he found out the foundation was approx 6" to 1/12 off from corner to corner


the city building inspector, did not catch it and passed the foundation…


my brother in law finally had to tear up the foundation with another contractor and fix it…after around $ 10,000 he finally got it right…


so there is some good hi’s out there…home buyers//and house sellers just need to find them… thanks RM…no i did not inspect it!!

12

Originally Posted By: ccoombs
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Bob


I feel for your situation. I sold a home after owning it only a year. The home inspection for my purchase and the sell were done by the same inspection company. The lists were not the same...nor would I expect them to be.

Anyway, I went through the list. I wrote out a letter addressing each item. If I were you, I would reply that the house is 50 years old. If they want a home to current code, then buy a new home or fix the "issues" after close.

I told the buyer that if I had the problems fixed he had no control over the quality of the work or who did the work. But if he hired the contractor, then he would be in control. I got an estimate to fix the main issues and provided a credit for that amount.

Good luck!

13

Originally Posted By: James D Mosier
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My Moter-in-law sold her house after the inspector basicly ripped it from top to bottom. She told the buyers something like, that’s a nice to do list you’ve got there. It even had a FPE main panel, among other “opportunities for improvement”.

–
Jim Mosier

14

Originally Posted By: dfrend
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First, As was pointed out, much of it is due to litigation. Picture this. You buy a home after leaving this one. The inspector does not write up a cut joist because it was fine 50 years ago. You move in and your nice new sofa goes over it. The joist breaks. Best case your floor is damaged and you have some hefty repiars. Worse, it collapses with your kid jumping on the couch and you are left with a injured or dead family member. Either way, I BET you sue the inspector. Walk a mile in our shoes.


As for the maintenance issues. If you hired the inspector I bet you would want the laundry list too. The problem here is not with the inspector, it is with the AGENTS involved. It is their job to advise their clients that siding being cleaned is not a reason to run from a house. These agants should be helping thier clients decide what on the inspectors list is important to them NOW, and what is for them to know.

It is not the inspectors fault that these AGENTS are only using their clients reports to haggle. They should be using them to EDUCATE on the EXISTING conditions. It is the buyers and the agents jobs to decide what they can live with, it is ours to tewll them what ALL the issues are.

--
Daniel R Frend
www.nachifoundation.org
The Home Inspector Store
www.homeinspectorstore.com

15

Originally Posted By: darmstrong
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I think it’s also the job of the inspector to try and explain the differences in major defect and minor repair. We have to note everything to cover our buts, but we can also inform our client as to what is a real problem and what is not.


Danny

16

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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I think dirty aluminum siding is a cosmetic item, which I don’t report. There, you see Bob, we’re all different.

17

Originally Posted By: rhinck
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Daniel,


You have hit on a major issue. If the buyer's agent is a good one and is doing his/her job correctly, they will explain that only "train wrecks" in the five categories can be renegotiated. The five being, structural, foundation, electrical, HVAC, and plumbing. Upgrades are just as the name implies, Upgrades. I have found it is easy to identify the clients that have had good real estate agents- they are not wanting a brand new house.

Rick