4 Point Electrical Question


I have an electrical issue question about an 4 Pt. inspection I preformed on a home built in 1959. I had marked ‘no’ on the AFCI question and now Citizen’s wants to cancel the home owner’s policy because of it. They told the agent that the policy would be cancelled since there are no AFCIs in the home.

Now since the AFCI is only required on homes built after 2002, I figured that it wouldn’t be an issue. But now I am wondering if anyone else has had the same experience with Citizens asking that electrical upgrades be made on older homes.

Thanks in advance for any input.


Insurance companies can make the decesion on what they want in the home .

That. Is another reason to make your own form. Remember who your client is. YOU CAN DECIDE WHAT IS ON YOUR FORM. There is no standard four point form. Keep is very short.

Hi Miguel - out of the 1000’s of four points we have done (on the Nachi form) I can tell you that we have never had a policy cancelled because there were no AFCI’s. (GFCI’s Yes but not AFCI’s). Perhaps it is an excuse they are using to cancel the policy? Or perhaps the agent needs to talk to a Sr. Underwriter and push the issue?

Yes they can and they do. But this should not be allowed, legislatures should demand that they accept the risk inherent to their proffession and service customers equally. Charge an incrementally higher rate OK, cancel…NO.

My **guess **the agent/underwriter was confused between AFCI AND GFCI.

For $25 bucks you can give them a piece of paper that has 4 point written on top. Just put the questions you know how to answer and you know will not cancel the policy. :stuck_out_tongue:

It is my inderstanding that the the Citizens info only specs tube and nob or single strand aluminum wiring as unacceptable for insurance coverage.

Do the research, look it up in their guide. Then fight for your customer

For $95 you are going to look up on the roof, go in the attic, crawl under the crawl space, and then battle the insurance company for your client? It’s no wonder that there is no money in these inspections any more.

Everyone needs to stop turning those darn molehills into mountains.

I guess for some old habits are hard to break :slight_smile:

LoL $95? In a market underwater with clueless newbies and bumbling CG’s, hell I expect the price to fall to $25 before the end of the year. I heard yesterday that some construction school hand delivered to the DBPR over 600 applications on February 28th. I’ll bet not one of these newly licensed idiots ever performed even one inspection ever… Your professional license is a joke.

Couldn’t agree more. The reality of the matter is under the new NEC only homes permitted after October 2009 (NEC 2008 adoption date for Fl.) will have all of the required AFCI protection. I’m screwed my home was built in 2005. LOL

If these become too much work for you guys, feel free to send them to me!

I have always used “Not Applicable” in situations where a home was built before something such as a GFCI or AFCI was required. Never had one rejected in those instances that I am aware of.

If you are using the NACHI form, I mark “N/A”. By marking “No” it is implying that it was supposed to be there and wasn’t.

In the future, have your Client ask their insurance company what form they accept. If it is just a one page form like Mr. Meeker uses, then the question isn’t even asked. If they want the NACHI form, N/A for G.F.I., ArcFault, and anything else that wasn’t applicable at the time the home was built.
If it has been changed to G.F.I., then mark yes.

As I tell my clients, find out what questions your insurance company wants answered, then answer those questions…and only those questions!

Great advice :slight_smile:

Bad advice if you ask me… I run my business, not my customers nor their insurance agents.

Most professional home inspectors have developed a 1-page form for 4-Point inspections and then use the NACHI form for Citizens.

For the record I have used my form for citizens a ton of times. I believe if you just put your electrical certificate on it then you can turn in a normal 4 point and not a mini home inspection.

I urge everyone to try. do the rest of the crap if you want just in case they say you need it but do what you can to keep it very short and simple. Using the Nachi form is steering it in the wrong way for all of our best interests.

Yes I agree, my form has never been turned down by Citizens or any other carrier, but that has not been the case for every home inspector.

Using the NACHI form when performing four-point inspections for Citizens will guarantee acceptance, whereas using your own form will not.

I suggest they make a NORMAL 4 point inspection and if they are worried have the answers to the Nachi one. If anyone gives them a lick of trouble tells us all then submit the one that they request.

My making it the norm to hand in the Nachi form some insurance underwriters may feel that is necessary when most of the stuff is not necessary and only gives them more crap to read before finding the answers they need.

This thread is a perfect example of why we need standards written for insurance inspections.

This is something that we intend on taking up with the OIR.