4 point inspecton insurance fraud

This happened this week:
An inspector did a Full Inspection & 4-Point to a client 4-5 month ago in which the roof was bad and reported as end of life. The client called this inspector because the roof was leaking. The inspector, being a roofer and knowing the roof was, bad went to the house.
There was a man with the client in which she introduces as her nephew.
The nephew started asking all kinds of question and pulls out a 4point report that was done on the property prior to closing. The 4point report had the roof in good condition so the insurance was issued and she was able to closed on the property.
When the inspector looked at the report he realized it was not his, it was another company and another inspector. The inspector saw the report and realized that it had pictures from another roof. The insurance agent got someone else to give a clean 4point report.
When the nephew realized that they had the wrong inspector he apologized and re-introduces himself as an Insurance Fraud Investigator. The investigator pointed to hidden cameras and told the inspector that this was a STING OPERATION.

The investigator told the inspector:

  1.   Inspectors are costing insurance company money.
  2.   Insurance companies are going after inspectors.
  3.   Insurance companies issues insurance based on 4point report.
  4.   Homes that are uninsurable are getting insurance.
  5.   Insurance companies are going to be inspecting the entire house every time there is a claim, no matter how small.
  6.   They are going to compare the new inspection with the existing report and come after fraud reports.
  7.   Real Estate agents are requesting 4points instead of a Full Inspection because inspectors are more lenient on 4points.

GOOD news. Maybe the stupid bastards doing them for $50 or bundling them will wake the f-ck up :slight_smile:

Based on your info above, it would appear that the insurance agent was complicit in the fraud. I think the insurance industry should do some house cleaning as well. I am not discounting the apparent fraud committed by the inspector, but rather pointing out that the insurance agent/industry bears some responsibility and accountability as well.

If I am not mistaken, I believe that there are other documented cases of insurance agents committing fraud with wind mitigation reports as well. Again, the insurance industry should do a better job policing themselves - rather than just attempting to place all blame on the inspection industry.

There are a few Realtors in the Tampa Bay Market who attempt to get home inspectors to only issue Four Point reports for real estate transactions, I won’t do them and neither should you.

I will do a 4 point for whoever wants it as long as they pay my price and on my terms. What they do with it is not my problem.

I know some use it to make darn sure the client can get insured. I “THINK” some use it like you say but I have no way of telling.

See cover sheet disclaimer below :slight_smile:

By utilizing this report, both the Homeowner and the Insurance Company agrees to hold Michael J. Meeker and Meeker Industries, Inc. harmless for the results of this report or the consequences of the report’s findings. The ratings & life expectancies are professional opinions based upon observed conditions at time of inspection and understood industry standards. Life expectancies & ratings are not a guarantee or warranty. No warranty or guarantee of items inspected, or of insurance coverage or discounts, is expressed or implied Michael J. Meeker or Meeker industries, Inc.

Tried unsuccessfully for years to make Realtors and buyers understand that doing the 4 Point at the same time as the Home Inspection was not a great idea. Many, many agents tell their customers to get that inspector who will do the four points and wind mits for free as part of the home inspection (for FREE!). I found that these reports were often at odds with each other (aluminum wiring, etc). The inspector ends up getting into a situation where the two agents, the seller, the buyer, the insurance company and the bank or mortgage company end up in a world class pissing contest. The inspector ends up in the middle of this cluster flop. Happened to me once or twice and I made sure it never happened again. I do NOT miss that crap at all.

I think he is saying the scum are using 4 points as a regular home inspections :frowning: A fool and their money… $50 inspection on $300,000.00 investment, they get what they deserve.

None of this is surprising, do your job properly and sleep soundly at night.

Joe, I agree with you that this concept is a disturbing trend. I completely disagree with your refusal to do them. Let me elaborate: I personally see the scenario as an opportunity to educate the client on the importance of a comprehensive home inspection as opposed to a limited scope 4 pt. inspection. I am essentially working in reverse- as historically I would do the home inspection and offer the 4 pt. inspection (when warranted and needed) as an ancillary service. In the scenario you are describing, I am doing the 4pt. and then educating the client (and maybe even the realtor) on the critical differences between a 4pt. inspection and a comprehensive home inspection and then offering the comprehensive home inspection as the ancillary service.

A realtor that pushes a 4pt. inspection in lieu of a comprehensive home inspection for a client purchasing a home is either dishonest, unethical, or simply uneducated in the concept of professional inspections. In either case, it is a disservice to the client. Again, I see this as an opportunity to educate the client and the realtor. If handled respectfully and professionally, I can be a win, win, win, for all parties. If the scenario turns out that the particular realtor is dishonest, or unethical, then the outcome would be just a win, win scenario for you and the client and not so much for the unethical agent that truly does not have the client’s best interest in mind.

Interesting. I would think that the reports would be more likely to be at odds with each other if they were conducted at different times by different inspectors. Surely, a professional inspector conducting the home inspection and the 4pt. inspection on the same house at the same time would be -or should be consistent with his reporting. Accurate and professional reporting is simply that - reporting. Issues between insurance companies, mortgage companies, buyers, sellers, and agents and brokers relating to facts contained within a professional report would only be an issue for the professional inspector if he or he allows it to be an issue.

That is why 4 points should only be paid 4 by the insurance companies. Finally issues f’s your client when you do 4 points. Some inspectors care and it puts them in a compromising situation. Not me. What it is, is what it is. Not my problem.

Think about it. You should be consistent but these are two totally different inspections for different reasons. Why would you as a buyer pay for an insurance inspection on a home you do not yet own. I have seen where aluminum wiring precludes someone from getting homeowners insurance while the sellers are raising holy hell because aluminum wiring is still acceptable. Then it has been my experience where the mortgage company and /or the insurance company insist changes be made or upgrades (totally unnecessary) before they would issue a policy or make the loan. It becomes a merry go round with all sides digging in with the hapless inspector caught in the middle.

Or for that matter, you, the buyer decides the home has too many discrepancies based on the home inspection alone, yet you have now paid for a four point and a wind mitigation inspeciton and can expect to do it again on the next home. I inspected numerous homes in my last year of inspecting that did not go to sale. Some realtors are using these inspections under false impressions that they pass along to the client. I have heard so many who believe that if they get those inspections, the home “automatically” receives a passing grade when in fact the opposite is the usually the case. A home inspection identifies all the moles, warts and stands alone while adding the insurance inspections at the same time tends to cloud the issues and can often cause the whole deal to spin off in a new direction. Seen it happen too many times.

As for it being an “issue” with the inspector. That is not the problem. It becomes an issue with all the other interested parties. In my case I did everything I could to keep all of it at arms length. In many cases, here in FL, the insurance company ended up being the ones driving the bus which is the last thing you want to happen.

I totally agree that there are circumstances where an issue on a 4pt. inspection can kill a purchase. In those cases, I advise the client when the issue is discovered and let them make the decision to proceed- or not. As for paying for an insurance inspection on a home that the client does not own, isn’t that always the case in a purchase situation? The insurance carrier will not bind the home without a 4pt inspection- and the mortgage -if financing- will not close without insurance. So, in those cases, the client will be paying for a 4pt inspection before they actually own the home- whether is be at the time of the home inspection - or at some time after the home inspection. As an inspector and business owner, I prefer to manage client expectations and advise them on site and do both inspections with one trip to the property. In the best interest of my clients, I would rather be the one doing both inspections for my client as opposed to them hiring the $50 smuck referred to them by their insurance agent- simply to get the deal closed- which- ultimately- may not be in the best interest of my client.

I always take all the information and all of the pictures I need on every inspection to complete the wind mit and the 4 point. That way when they call me back all they have to do is pay and I can issue the reports.

I posted this mainly for the doubters out there that think they cannot be sued. Insurance is going to start taking a close look at these report. I know of two roofs that were passed by the insurance inspector and both of them were leaking. both inspectors are now facing law suits. I also had an insurance agent once tell me that it does not matter what is written on a report because things can change after the report is written.

Personally I hope they nail everyone one of these a**holes out there, especially the ones who are giving kickbacks and writing soft reports.

One of mine today. Was going to do the HI & 4 Pt but once I see this the game changes. Call me when you make repairs.


I knew it wouldn’t be long before they go after inspectors. Inspector general to go after excessive travel…yea right. The big 3 will soon have a lock on the home inspection business. I hope the ones they catch have a contractors license also…that should even the field a bit.

It is why I tell all of my clients to have all the issues fixed, before I submit the four-point. I don’t waste my time doing a four-point that has a bunch of things wrong. That is what the home inspection is for.

Did you get paid for your time? going there and such. What was booked for that appointment?

I have written up only a handful of acceptable 4 points during the full HI. And I do not market my insurance inspection services (just the add ons) and seldom due stand alone insurance inspections. How many properties over 25 years old are going to “pass” a 4-point? I list these issues in the summary and if the deal goes through and stuff gets fixed, I go back and perform a 4-point and charge accordingly, if it’s not fixed, I go back out and charge again (unless it’s close by or convenient, I’m not trying to gouge my client).
As far as RE agents recommending only 4-points and wind mits, some will figure it out that it is not a good idea and others will when they get sued. I don’t even bother with those yahoos “so and so can do it for 75$”, I just say “Let me know how that works out for you?”

The job was booked with three inspections. HI Wind & 4 Pt
Once I was done with the roof I knew it was a deal killer.
Way to expensive for the home and asking price.
When the client showed up I did discount 40.00 because
there was no way it going to pass anything until he did the obvious.
He pretty much backed out of the deal on the spot and said he would
call me again for the next one.