A/C electrical disconnect fuses

I agree and more then likey cheaper then putting in Dummy fuses
… Cookie

http://www.electriciansupplies.com/index.cfm/S/235/CLID/1750/Dummy_Fuses_.htm

**Dummy Fuses **

http://www.electriciansupplies.com/productimages/cobussc00008_184_tn_002.jpg

](http://www.electriciansupplies.com/index.cfm/S/235/CLID/1750/N/9548/Dummy_Fuse_Slug.htm) Dummy Fuse Slug](http://www.electriciansupplies.com/index.cfm/S/235/CLID/1750/N/9548/Dummy_Fuse_Slug.htm)
from $14.02 ea.

http://www.electriciansupplies.com/productimages/cobussc00008_184_tn_002.jpg

](http://www.electriciansupplies.com/index.cfm/S/235/CLID/1750/N/9549/Dummy_Fuses.htm) Dummy Fuses](http://www.electriciansupplies.com/index.cfm/S/235/CLID/1750/N/9549/Dummy_Fuses.htm)
price $11.40 ea.

http://www.electriciansupplies.com/site/clear.gif

What do you guys do when you find an HVAC disconnect that has a “breaker” with no writing on the handle?

It would be an identical situation because the beaker size wouldn’t matter at this location. It’s basically a shut-off only.

The important breaker (for the condenser) would be at the SE panel.

Agreed …I thing Greg really wanted to hear that from an HI…as did I…the NEC only calls for disconnection means for the Compressor…the protection at the main panel needs to be sized propery per the nameplate…

Now let us not forget…it the nameplate calls for a fuse only protection…and lets say they upgraded the panel to circuit breakers…then replacing that non-fused disconnect with a fused version makes it compliant…jus food for thought and a refresher.

Based on what I have seen, if the device has no rating marked on the handle, it is not a OCPD, just a disconnect in a convenient housing (it has no trip device).

Yep Frank, just like a dummy fuse, which brings us back to “what was wrong with the picture on the top of this thread”. Is a $15 piece of 1/2" copper pipe with “this is not a fuse” stamped on really any safer than one without the warning? Couldn’t you just write “this is not a fuse” with a sharpie pen?

SURE…IMG_1524-1400.jpg

Are you saying the use of a piece of scrap plumbing pipe jamed into a disconnect…even if used only as a disconnection means…is UL Listed for that equipment?
I dont believe we have the authority to be a 3rd party to make that pipe listed for this application.

As safe…thats an objective but is it a violation…yep…lol

Could we recap for the electrically impaired?

Example: This situation ok, this not ok? Condenser, no fuse needed if this?

Violation? yes
Hazard? no.

This is like the argument about “listed” ground screws

Aaahhh…but what if…here is me being codie again…what if they installed that copper pipe and the listing of the qipment calls for fuses…and because they keep blowing them someone jams in pipes…

I wont get into the symantics of what ifs because we do not know everything in the post as verified…for example does the unit say fuses only…is the OCPD at the origination point sized properly…sorry i have been wiring over 20 years and i would never think about putting copper plumbing pipes into a disconnection means…and as an educator i dont want even begin to send that message…safety is one thing…manufacturers intent, poor workmanship and flat volation of the UL listing would be reasons…sorry…i just dnt like seeing shotty and crappy…be it lazy work from anybody.

If i did not have a fuse on hand…i would have to make another trip…blame me for not having a proprly stocked truck and learn from it…if any of my guys back when i did have a few did this i wuld have fired them on the spot…

just my thoughts…but then again i also believe AFCI breakers are important also…teehheheeehehhe

Happy Holidays Greg…just giving ya a hard time fella…lol

so to recap???

To recap, if this is just a means of disconnect the code problem is using an unlisted piece of pipe instead of a listed piece of pipe with “this is not a fuse” stamped in it.
And watch out for those unlisted ground screws too! :wink:

Yesterdays find, I called for a complete system eval and repair as there were many other issues.:smiley:

But what if the disconnect is the OCPD? My a/c disconnect has 40a fuses, but is wired to the subfeed lugs of the panel, which do not have their own OCPD. That is, the panel (fused split buss type – 60a lights & appliances, 40A range) does not have a separate OCPD for the condensing unit; the subfeed lugs are protected by the 60A fuses. So in my situation, the use of a slug or piece of copper pipe may well present a safety issue. I guess what I’m saying is that if one runs across this they should make sure that there is some other OCPD dedicated to the condensing unit, right?

You certainly need to verify that there is proper overcurrent protection in the circuit. That is why I brought up the “breaker” with no writing on the handle.

Oh that is just plain nasty!
I love the taped up bare ground passing right in front of those “dummy fuses”.:shock:

Laugh it off, Petey. You probably didn’t like Archie anyway and would have LOVED to seem him fry on national TV.

I always err on the side of my client’s safety.

Home inspectors get sued, all the time, for safety concerns.

We don’t have the luxury of hiding behind the local, minimum standards of “code”.

We are not “licensed electrical contractors”, we are (at least I hope) home inspectors. We have (at least in Illinois) legal fiduciary responsibility. This means that we MUST do all we can to protect the client, not just to “get the job done and get paid”.

Sorry if this seems harsh, but it reveals an importnt truth.

When you are building a house, your “client” is the GC. When you are inspecting the house, your client will have to LIVE in the house.

There are no "minimum’ Standards for safety or life.

Will, you need to chill out!
What, did an electrican sleep with your wife or something??? You sure do have a bug up your butt.
You little quip: "You probably didn’t like Archie anyway and would have LOVED to seem him fry on national TV.", was downright nasty.
Who do you think you are?

Why do feel the need to pull up a two week ould post just to make these comments to me? Comments BTW that are WAY off base sir.
My Archie Bunker comment was about homeowners doing stupid things. Not about us lowly contractors.
Insted you go off on another tirade about getting sued and having your legal responsibility, like you are the only one who has any responsibility to their customers.

I know you had a bad day, but go take a nap or something, please.

Oh, BTW, I LOVED “All in the Family”. I try to catch it on TV Land whenever I can. I’ve probably seen every episode when I was a kid. I didn’t care for “Archie’s Place” much. He had gotten way too soft by then.
How do you think I know about the penny in the fuse box episode?

Here is an example:

I did an inspection on a house in a high priced area. The house was built, originally, in 1923 and completely gut-rehabbed in 2004. All the work was pretty well done and there were only a few, minor, issues that could easily be fixed.

The entire electrical service was redone. New wire, devices and panels with upgrade to 200 amps.

There was a service equipment panel and a small distribution panel to the side (to allow for enough breakers).

The ground to neutral bonding was done in the neutral buss bar and the neutral feeder to the distribution panel was done there as well.

The problem. These two conductors were large gauged and braded. Instead of having them installed in the proper sized lugs, both had their braiding split and inserted into the small buss holes. Get the picture.

I thought thiw was wrong, but wanted to be sure. I called Paul A and he verified the mistake. Told me that there was a listed lug that could easily be installed for bothe these conductors. Heck, the whole job should have taken about half an hour to fix and should have been done during the rehab and caught by the local codies.

I called it out. The seller (who is sonewhat of an a**) had the original sparky come in and say it was OK. I talked to him and asked for him to put it in writing. He told me to F**k off and who the heck did I think I was, criticising his work. The Realtor started calling me an ‘alarmist’ and the client didn’t have anything done and the whole thing went away.

Until about 8 months later.

Big problems with the electrical system and it needs a new panel (I don’t know why, they won’t let me look at it) but I have been dragged in.

My lawyer says I am completely OK (my report listed the problem) but the damage is done and I loose a high priced client (who, at the time, told me I was being an alarmist). Did they go after the sparky? No. Did they goafter the local AHJ? No (besides, locak AHJs are immune from liability, in Illinois.

In other words, the electrician did a bad job, refused to admit it and fix it (even when the repair would have been easy and inexpensive) and damage was done, as a result.

Who do they come after? Me. All I did was point out the problem (and take the S**T for saying so). I am so glad (legally) that I did not back down, but I still have legal fees to pay.

So, yeah. At least around here, I don’t really like electricians who do the lowest, cheapest work they can get away with.

And I appoligize to you for putting you in that catagory.

My point is that if the NEC says it is wrong and the panel manufacturer says it is wrong, why should the HI have a higher standard of liability for saying so than the electrician who was paid to do the work in the first place and the AHJ, who want all the authority but will never accept any liability for their mistakes.

To the thread’s point. If the disconnect was designed for fuses, they should have fuses, not copper tubing. Case closed.