A new one for me

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#1

Originally Posted By: jpope
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Advanced apologies to dial-up users icon_sad.gif


Another early 20's installation (according to records). But I've never seen this setup.



The meter pan tells me there are no fuses inside so I didn't break the seal to check

Turns out to be another one of those "15 Amp Meters"



The service panel is located inside the home and is only 20A. An equipment panel is located just to the left of it.



Yes, that is the water heater in the way.



I have no idea what the breaker capacities are for the equipment panel.







Can anyone shed some light on to this type of set up. This is for discussion rather than help with my report. This is one of those rare cases where I recommended complete replacement rather than try and list the defects. I hope you're okay with that Jerry

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

#2

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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Again the meter itself is from the 40s or early 50s and “breakers” would indicate that this was probably updated in that same time frame or later. I do agree this should be evaluated by an electrician and probably replaced. The panel on the right seems newer than the one on the left. Are you sure this isn’t a service tap? Was there anything like a main disconnect?

#3

Originally Posted By: jpope
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What do you mean by a “service tap?” These were the only panels “down stream” of the meter.


The service drop entered the mast and ran about 15' to 20' across the eaves and down to the meter. I assumed the panel on the right was the "service panel" as the two lower 20A breakers shut off power to (what I identified as) the equipment panel. The 240V, 20A at the top was wired directly to a window mounted A/C unit.

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

#4

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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I was thinking both panels were coming off the service entrance cable. That is legal if both are rated “service equipment” and you have 6 or fewer disconnects. I doubt that is true in either case.


It is certainly time to get an electrician and I guess that is what your report says.

#5

Originally Posted By: jpope
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Greg Fretwell wrote:
It is certainly time to get an electrician and I guess that is what your report says.


Absolutely.

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
#6

Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
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Jeff


"The meter pan tells me there are no fuses inside so I didn't break the seal to check"

Tell me that you are NOT cutting the seals.

Mike P.

#7

Originally Posted By: jpope
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icon_lol.gif No Mike, I don’t cut seals icon_lol.gif

–
Jeff Pope


JPI Home Inspection Service


“At JPI, we’ll help you look better”


(661) 212-0738

#8

Originally Posted By: dbozek
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Tis ok to cut seals…if replacement and/or inspection of the device is needed. Do it allllllll the time…and have yet to see the prison cell at the utility company.


The meter looks like one of the older types that did not have the pins on the back allowing it to be plugged in. It appears it may have wires where the pins would normally be, and is therefore lugged into the meter can itself. I run into these types of meters from time to time. They are antique for sure and often takes an act of congress to get the utility company to replace them. Nevertheless, they are functional, just old. Just cuz sumthin is old tho.....doesn't make it worthless....right Jerry ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif) ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)

On the right track though. Recommend your local neighborhood sparky to evaluate. I would recommend replacement/upgrade.

Still cutting seals here

--
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they should and could do for themselves. Abraham Lincoln

#9

Originally Posted By: roconnor
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dbozek wrote:
Tis ok to cut seals

Not for an HI. For a licensed electrician it may be common practice to cut the seal and then call the utility company to re-seal, but technically I believe the POCO is suppose to be called to cut the seal ... just not a very good response time ... ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)

--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
#10

Originally Posted By: dbozek
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Perhaps Robert, but what if…the meter can looks really bad…I mean lets say it’s all rusted for instance…you mean to tell me a HI cannot cut the seal to pull the cover and look inside? Or perhaps that would be going to extremes on a HI inspection. Boy am I ever gonna have a problem when I start inspecting houses icon_eek.gif


Before I sleep now, I say ten times to myself..."Request a qualified sparky inspects the electrical".

--
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they should and could do for themselves. Abraham Lincoln

#11

Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
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The meter is the property of the utility.


It is their 'cash register'.

I only cut it for maintenance work, and with their permission. IE replacement, or service change.

Inspecting a meter can is outside of a HI's job, an electricians job, or an ESI.

Remember the meter falls under the NESC not the NEC.

By opening the meter you are looking for latent defects.

IMHO a HI is suppose to look for patent defects.?

Mike P.

#12

Originally Posted By: dbozek
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Quote:
Inspecting a meter can is outside of a HI's job, an electricians job, or an ESI.


It is my job to inspect an electrical meter base Mike. I have cut them seals a bazillion times as well and even with the utility company on site. They surely can see that there was a reason for the seal to be broken.

--
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they should and could do for themselves. Abraham Lincoln
#13

Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
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Since we disagree may I suggest you get a ruling from John Brant. He is the Executive Secretary for the Ohio Department Of Commerce Board of Building Standards.


Mike P.

#14

Originally Posted By: dbozek
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Naw…no need to do that Mike. But I will do this, if I ever get fined for doing my job…I will write to you from prison ok icon_lol.gif


In all of my 30 some years and with all of the seals I have cut....from the new state of the art clicking types to the little lead pieces twisted on and crimped with wire.....I have never had a utility company representative smack my...ummm thingy because I cut their precious seal. Now the homeowner tends to have some grief with that these days cuz now the utility company charges them $15 to replace that little thingy

--
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they should and could do for themselves. Abraham Lincoln

#15

Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Dennis


I have met with him on a question regarding the ORC (Ohio Revised Code).

He told me, in MY words, that I was full of it (wrong).

My point is that the state does not regulate the utilities. And that might mean that your state license does not allow you to perform these inspections.

Mike P.

#16

Originally Posted By: dbozek
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Okie dokie Mike…next time I get that emergency call…and the homeowner has half power…and the leg that is active is smokin in the meter can…I will simply tell Mr. Homeowner…call the utility company…oh they should be here within a hour or perhaps not until the next day…with all these storms goin on…do that cuz I might lose my license if I cut this seal here…and oh well if your house is toast by the time they get around to you…you can tell the writer’s of the ORC that they need to change a few things in there…


NOT....I am more than certain if it was wrong or a problem.....I would be wearing stripes by now. The main utility company here is CEI....and they charge a solid $950 for a 100 amp service upgrade. I charge $350. I gotta cut that seal Mike......to do it. I do it everyday as well. The ESI comes along and inspects it.....and then contacts CEI to seal it. If it was a problem.....I am sure one of them agencies would be all over me about it.

--
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they should and could do for themselves. Abraham Lincoln

#17

Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
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Dennis


How did we get from a HI cutting the tag to you doing your 'other' job?

Mike P.

#18

Originally Posted By: dbozek
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Mike I am not a HI and when I become one…I will encase my seal cutting tool in concrete and chunk it in Lake Erie okkkk? icon_lol.gif

–
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they should and could do for themselves. Abraham Lincoln

#19

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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This “seal” thing has taken on a life of it’s own. Around here you need a permit to get it resealed and they will take the meter with them if you don’t have one.


At least that is the threat.


It does tend to cut down on the number of unpermitted service changes.


The other way is if you call the service and say you are swapping out a bad main breaker but they want to hear a license number when you call or you can call service as a "vandalism" call. (which is what I would do if the HI did it)
If they just find the cut seal you might just get an audit but you had better have been using about the same amount of power for a while. It IS the cash register, protected by law.

#20

Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
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Dennis


"I will encase my seal cutting tool in concrete and chunk it in Lake Erie okkkk?"

Is that an Erie dirie? ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)


Mike P.