ASHI / NACHI Q & A

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#1

Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
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It seems clear that the members on each side of this are lacking a lot of accurate information about the other. Instead of having it scattered all over 10 threads, I thought we could try to get much of it in 1 thread so anyone who’s interested can find it.


I don't hold any ASHI offices, but I'll try to answer any question I can. Maybe Scott and some of the dual / past members will help. I would prefer to avoid any specific questions about how the other side spends its money if possible, those don't seem to go anywhere.

How about we start from these two premises:
1. Every person at NACHI is not an unqualified idiot with no ethical compass who would sell his mother for a good marketing idea.
2. Every person at ASHI is not an unqualified idiot with a superiority complex who dreams of world domination.
Fair enough? ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)


I'll start.

Is it true that Nick literally owns the organization?

Is passing the entrance exam the only requirement for certification?

By the way, I mentioned 4 rungs in the ASHI ladder on one of the other threads. There is a "Master" designation at ASHI, but it's currently adminstered by the chapters rather than headquarters. I think the requirements vary somewhat. I recently spoke against this on the message board over there, just on the grounds that national should handle designations, not the chapters.

#2

Originally Posted By: gbell
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Great idea!!


I hope that we can stay focused and on track.

Answers

1. I think it would be best for Nick to answer this one.

2. http://www.nachi.org/membership.htm Explains the requirements of membership.

Question

What can we all do together to increase the creditability of our industry?

--
Greg Bell
Bell Inspection Service

#3

Originally Posted By: ekartal
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The Great Lakes Chapter of ASHI designates quaified members the ‘master inspector’ credential. From what I was told just last week by a GLC member-friend the credential is a very difficult one to achieve.


Erol Kartal

#4

Originally Posted By: ekartal
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gbell wrote:
Question

What can we all do together to increase the creditability of our industry?


Raise our fees. I'm serious. The $200 inspection creates a handyman image not a profession.

Erol Kartal
#5

Originally Posted By: Guest
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Good for you Erol. I’m not in an upscale market, have tons of competition and have never lost a prospect due to price. I start @ 350.00 for up to 2,000 square feet, if it’s newer than 1960. Older is more. Bigger is more.

#6

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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Good job Brian.


The answers to your two questions are:

1. No. NACHI is a non-profit corporation that issued no stock and so therefore isn't owned. It can never be owned. It cannot be sold or bought (literally or figuratively). Many, including myself, run/steer/control it of course. I think some chapters have incorporated in states that permit ownership and so might be "literally" owned, but NACHI nor I influence any control over chapters whatsoever anyway. All chapters are run by the members in them. I am not a member of the steering committee. I am not a member of any chapter.

2. No. Passing an exam is not the only requirement for certification. NACHI only certifies members and here are the membership requirements: http://www.nachi.org/membership.htm


I agree with Erol & Chad and will be talking about "raising prices when your competitors charge less" at http://www.nachi.org/sefloridachapter.htm on Saturday.

--
Nick Gromicko
Founder
dues=79cents/day.

I much prefer email to private messages.

#7

Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
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What can we all do together to increase the creditability of our industry?


Hoo boy, how much time have you got? Since this is being asked on this particular thread, are you asking what ASHI & NACHI can do together on this issue?

#8

Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
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1. No. NACHI is a non-profit corporation that issued no stock and so therefore isn’t owned. It can never be owned. It cannot be sold or bought (literally or figuratively). Many, including myself, run/steer/control it of course.


So Nick, does that mean the membership can vote you out, or fire you, or something, if they so choose?

About the requirements....

It says you must have "completed" the Ethics Obstacle Course. Is that to say you must pass?

It says you must have "taken" the SOP Quiz. Is that to say you must pass? Doesn't sound like it.

Does anyone ever check anyone's reports to verify compliance with the SOP?

Full members are required to have E & O if it's required by law where they are? Is it just me, or does that seem...redundant?

The "Online Inspectors Exam"...is that the infamous entrance exam? If so, what the heck is the point of having full members take it every year?

How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood? ![icon_razz.gif](upload://rytL63tLPMQHkufGmMVcuHnsuWJ.gif)

#9

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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Brian, these have all been answered before here many times but quickly:


1. I suppose. I just can't get rid of them ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif) .
2. The Ethics obstacle course can't be completed unless you answer every situation correctly. So I guess the answer to your question is yes.
3. There is no pass fail cut-off on the SOP quiz because it punishes you in both directions (inspecting items you need not as well as failing to inspect items you must). Take it and you'll understand. It's main goal is to get veterans to read it... something that only newbies statistically do. Newbies generally follow the SOP perfectly whereas veterans veer dramatically.
4. Answer partly in #3. Perhaps newbies should check over veteran's reports. This may sound silly, but not statistically.
5. Not redundant enough. There is a very small organization (PHIC made up of ASHI guys) in PA (where E&O insurance is required by law) that argued against NACHI checking up on member's policies because (as they told Joe Hagarty) "many of our PHIC members don't have E&O." Note that this is illegal in PA. So the answer to your question is yes, it's redundant, but not redundant enough.
6. Because times change in this industry (ARC faults in bedrooms for example). I heard a rumour that there is a bogus association out there that only makes you take one exam once. That's it. Some members of that association haven't passed an exam in many years. What B.S.
7. As much wood. As a woodchuck would,. if a woodchuck. could chuck wood.



--
Nick Gromicko
Founder
dues=79cents/day.

I much prefer email to private messages.

#10

Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
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1. I suppose. I just can’t get rid of them.


Somehow I feel like "I suppose" isn't a very firm answer, yet somehow I feel like I have the answer from it. I'll move on.

4. Answer partly in #3. Perhaps newbies should check over veteran's reports. This may sound silly, but not statistically.

Take that as a "No".

5. Not redundant enough. There is a very small organization (PHIC made up of ASHI guys) in PA (where E&O insurance is required by law) that argued against NACHI checking up on member's policies because (as they told Joe Hagarty) "many of our PHIC members don't have E&O." Note that this is illegal in PA. So the answer to your question is yes, it's redundant, but not redundant enough.

Fair enough. Sounds like a breakdown at the state level. Why would ASHI guys care if you checked on NACHI members E & O? Am I reading that wrong?

6. Because times change in this industry (ARC faults in bedrooms for example). I heard a rumour that there is a bogus association out there that only makes you take one exam once.

That's what CE is for. How many times does a lawyer have to pass the bar? Or a doctor pass the medical boards? Any changes in those professions over time?

7. As much wood. As a woodchuck would,. if a woodchuck. could chuck wood.

Hah! I knew it all along!

#11

Originally Posted By: tschwalbe
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mabey everybody in all professions should take the test at least once every year or 2


My EMT & CPR certifications have to be re done every 2 years and let me tell you that is a good thing it keeps everyone on the same playing field and up to date with the many changes going on around them.

Some people don't follow the changes and subconsciously think they don't apply to them.

Do you ever have to re test for a drivers license?

In a field that is changing as much as ours once a year testing should be a minuminum. Sure continuing education is good but who is to say that you are actually learning from it or just sleeping through it to get your CEU"s Any one opposed to once a year testing is just threatend by the fact that they might not pass the test.

#12

Originally Posted By: gbell
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Yes


Brian that is exactly what I am asking.


Lets look at the facts.

Our numbers increase everyday. At the rate we are going we will surpass ASHI in numbers. If we haven't already done so.

I feel that our benefits exceed any other association in the industry.

The fact that so many people like yourself are here speaks for itself.

So yes lets stop the childish play, name calling and work together.

I like the part about raising prices. That is a good start towards improving our image. What other ideas do you have ?

I just received The FABI Newsletter in the mail. It appears that they are going to be our next big fight. It is a shame that we waste so much time, energy and expense fighting with each other. They are having their members remove the word certified from all of their marketing material. It is their opinion that the only entity that can certify someone in the State of Florida is the State. Wonder what their next step will be after they have cleaned their own house so to speak. I would bet that it will be to attack us because we use the word certified.

--
Greg Bell
Bell Inspection Service

#13

Originally Posted By: dharris
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[quote=“Brian A. Goodman”]What can we all do together to increase the creditability of our industry?


Kinda of a biased opinion
Have all states recognize ashi [seeing that they have over 25 years experience ] recommended license requirements????

#14

Originally Posted By: staylor
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I am a proud member of both organizations. I don’t know the history of the animosity between the two organizations and really don’t care. I don’t kwow who "owns " either organiztion and also don’t care. I made a business decision to be a member of both organizations and have received benefits from both. I can say that I feel that I get more bang for the buck from my NACHI membership than from my ASHI membership. It is my personal feeling that ASHI, like the labor unions, at some point, stopped being about taking care of the membership and started being about the survival of the organization. Right now, my impression is that NACHI is more focused on taking care of it’s members. I hope that as NACHI grows, this does not change. I will continue to be a member of both organizations as long as they are a benefit to my business. I will be attending ASHI’s Octoberspec in Florida and NACHI’s convention in January. I hope to learn or improve my skills at both events.


Rather than throwing stones at each other, I would like to see both organizations work together, or independently, to raise the professionalism of our industry and hopefully increase our fees.

Steve Taylor
Taylor Inspection Services, Inc.
Fernandina Beach, Florida

#15

Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
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mabey everybody in all professions should take the test at least once every year or 2


Which test? If the entrance exam is it, how meaningful is it? Passing that once a year would be a breeze. Testing might be a good idea, but there would be a lot of details to work out for it to be worthwhile.

Some people don't follow the changes and subconsciously think they don't apply to them.

True.

Do you ever have to re test for a drivers license?

Nope. Does anyone?

Sure continuing education is good but who is to say that you are actually learning from it or just sleeping through it to get your CEU"s

There's no guarantee of learning from CE, but there's no guarantee people won't cheat on a test either. In short, there are no guarantees no matter how you go at this.

Any one opposed to once a year testing is just threatend by the fact that they might not pass the test.

Nobody's threatened by the test NACHI uses. I'm not opposed to annual testing per se, but as I said above, it would need to be right. It would have to be both fair and meaningful. There would have to be a third party proctor, a system of reporting the grades to a governing body, a whole set of rules to cover what happens when someone doesn't pass, etc., etc., etc.

#16

Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
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I like the part about raising prices. That is a good start towards improving our image. What other ideas do you have ?


I'm mowing grass today, I'll have to get back to you a little later on this.

It is their opinion that the only entity that can certify someone in the State of Florida is the State.

I think that's just semantics. I much prefer the term "licensed" for the state's purposes. Lots of different organizations offer certifications, but not a license to work in a particular profession. That's the role of government or no one at all.

Wonder what their next step will be after they have cleaned their own house so to speak. I would bet that it will be to attack us because we use the word certified.

Sure sounds like it.

#17

Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
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Have all states recognize ashi [seeing that they have over 25 years experience ] recommended license requirements???


No, lots of state still have no licensing period. Of those that do, not all have standards adopted into law. Of those that have standards, I beleive virtually all have the ASHI Standards. Some one correct me if I'm wrong.

Side note:
ASHI began issueing a ranking of state licensing laws a year or two ago, based on the ASHI ideals of course. In the first ranking Mississippi was tied with Connecticut for #1. WE ain't last in everything. ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)

#18

Originally Posted By: dedwards
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I don’t know why so many people think “licensing” is the final answer for ensuring quality in the home inspection industry. Contractors are licensed but that industry has been in the top five professions that are registered with the complaint department for the Nat’l Consumer agencies for years running. Doctor’s are licensed but they still manage to misdiagnose people and kill a couple hundred thousand a year. Barbers are licensed but you don’t have to try real hard to still get a sh*tty haircut. What I see is a lot of snap answers for a quick fix to the crappy inspectors out there. I can also see some real benefits to licensing but it is not the be all answer to the perceived problem. There are licensed home inspectors that continue to do sloppy, unprofessional inspections because some people can just can not admit they don’t know every stinking thing or take any kind of advice, criticism (constructive or otherwise). Licensing is the best avenue to forcing a CE program that you control, into place within a state and THAT is where the real money in home inspections is. Why climb into a hot attic or a nasty crawl space when you can crawl up onto a podium in an air conditioned classroom and charge a couple grand for a five day program of home inspection, wave a wand over the class and deem them home inspectors. Meanwhile teach the test so everyone can pass it and graduate, so theycan then go out into the field and can’t tell a T/P valve from a hose bibb. This whole argument boils down to protecting their particular “rice bowl”. Capturing the market and keeping others out through legislation. A lot of states have licensing and it hasn’t stopped lousy inspections from taking place or lousy inspectors from becoming licensed.

#19

Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
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That’s a different thread Doug. This was an ASHI question; please pardon me if I drifted a tad. If you want to start one about that I’ll be glad to participate, but let’s not do it here.


Thanks.

#20

Originally Posted By: tschwalbe
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Hey Brian in case you havent noticed this is a NACHI forum. You are not even a member. So why dont you take your negitive attitude somewhere else and dont tell us what to do!