Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I am beginning to see these more and more lately. Should we be testing these?
Am I correct in assuming that if both hot and neutral of the same circuit are not connected to the breaker, the AFCI will not function properly?
Are these generally used only where the circuit wires may be penetrated by a nail or screw, or is there some other criteria used to determine where these are required?
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
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Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
One of the coders can tell you absolutely where per the NEC, but at this point on new construction here they are required in the bedrooms. I test them in vacant houses only as they reset the clocks to blinky, blinky, and the telephone answering machines to beepy, beepy. I did test one in a vacant house last week and it set off the alarm system
Originally Posted By: jmcginnis This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Yes
Yes
210.12 NEC
FYI... If an electrician wire staples his cables too tightly into wooden studs, it is possible over time for the stud to swell or twist or warp and pinch the cable so tight against the staple as to pierce the insulation and create an arcing condition inside the wall. This is a condition that could present itself years after constuction is completed. An AFCI would detect this.
Originally Posted By: jpeck This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
The 1999 NEC required AFCI effective 1/1/2002 for all bedroom receptacle outlets.
The 2002 NEC changed that to ALL bedroom outlets. Ceiling lights, wall lights, ceiling fans, smoke detectors in bedrooms, ALL outlets.
A switch is not an outlet, thus, if there is a switch in a bedroom which operates an exterior light, the lighting outlet, and thus the switch (for that non-bedroom outlet) does not require AFCI protection.
Originally Posted By: Ryan Jackson This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Greg Fretwell wrote:
AFCIs have regular GFCI protection as part of the listing standard. That is part of the reason why you need the neutral connection.
Not really. They have equipment level GFCI (GFPE) protection, not personnel protection like a "regular" GFCI. GFPE trips at 30 milliamps, GFCI (class A) trips at 6-8 milliamps.
Originally Posted By: Russell Frame This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I was aware of the AFCI requirement for bedrooms, but I dont really understand the logic/intent behind the law.
GFCI requirements pretty much focus on 'wet' locations....so that makes sense.
But why are AFCI's only required in bedrooms?
Is it assumed that a fire breakout in a bedroom wall is worse than in a hall leading to an exit?
Or is it assumed that little Johnny is more likely to put dad's screwdriver into some NM while practicing his nailing technique in his bedroom's drywall?
I guess I dont understand what makes bedrooms more special than any other area for AFCI protection.
Originally Posted By: Ryan Jackson This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Russell: When I teach on article 210, I always give myself about an hour to discuss 210.12, because most of the questions aren’t “where are they required”, but more like your own “why are they required there”?. I have a pretty nice collection of fire data from the NFPA and the CPSC that show a lot of logic for the descision. For example, bedrooms are not the biggest fire danger, but more people are killed when fires occur in the bedroom than in other areas.
I think if we wait a few more code cycles we will see a lot more of them 
Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Ryan Jackson wrote:
Greg Fretwell wrote:
AFCIs have regular GFCI protection as part of the listing standard. That is part of the reason why you need the neutral connection.
Not really. They have equipment level GFCI (GFPE) protection, not personnel protection like a "regular" GFCI. GFPE trips at 30 milliamps, GFCI (class A) trips at 6-8 milliamps.
I was really getting back to the neutral connection. I guess I should have just said "ground fault protection" 
Originally Posted By: dbowers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I think they’re not real prelevant yet. In Kansas City I’ve only seen them installed once in the last year on over 350 inspections (and maybe 30-40 of those being new construction).
Originally Posted By: John M Borchers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote:
440.65 Leakage Current Detection and Interruption
(LCDI) and Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter (AFCI).
Single-phase cord-and-plug-connected room air conditioners
shall be provided with factory-installed LCDI or AFCI
protection. The LCDI or AFCI protection shall be an integral
part of the attachment plug or be located in the power
supply cord within 300 mm (12 in.) of the attachment plug.
Quote:
(B) Dwelling Unit Bedrooms. All branch circuits that supply
125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere outlets installed
in dwelling unit bedrooms shall be protected by an
arc-fault circuit interrupter listed to provide protection of
the entire branch circuit.
With these 2 items I say it is not required because 210.12B is talking about 125V circuits only.
Originally Posted By: Mike Parks This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Jerry
"A switch is not an outlet, thus, if there is a switch in a bedroom which operates an exterior light, the lighting outlet, and thus the switch (for that non-bedroom outlet) does not require AFCI protection."
First read 210.12(B) "the entire circuit'.
Then read 100 the definition of a switch.
Then go to 100 and read the definition of an outlet.
Then go to 100 and read the definition of utilization equipment.
The references are for others and not meant for Jerry per se.
Originally Posted By: Ryan Jackson This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Mike: Read the definition of outlet one more time, then ask yourself “does a switch take current”? My answer is no, a switch does not take current and therefore it is not an outlet.
