Originally Posted By: rray This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
. If you’re buying an older place, an inspection can determine whether asbestos is present. (It didn’t become illegal until 1979.) A trained professional must remove the asbestos. In fact, the expert will show up in a space suit, and we bet you don’t have one of those stashed away in the attic.
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I don't go near this far in reporting on asbestos in my reports.
Originally Posted By: Guest This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I don’t get all excited over asbestos. If I see it, I don’t put my nose up there to inhale the fibers, or deliberately concentrate and inhale the fumes.
I tell my clients that I saw a substance that looks like asbestos and I recommend that they have the situation evaluated by a pro for containment or removal.
The only time it bothers me at all is when it's on the interior of forced air ductwork to seal the register to the duct.
We need to keep it in perspective. All day long while driving down the road you're breathing it from the brake linings on every car. Every time your mechanic does a brake job, he's exposed.
In my community the local high school was abandoned twenty years ago because of asbestos wrapping on the piping for the heating system, and a new, incredibly ugly structure was built to replace the old, beautiful, graceful structure that had housed tens of thousands of students for the last hundred years.
As the years passed and the asbestos issues were more closely studied, containment became a viable solution and the original high school is back in use as commercial space.
Just make the client aware and let them decide how much of an issue it is.
Originally Posted By: Lew Lewis This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Russell,
What kind of magazine was that? The author doesn't sound very well informed.
If there are vinyl asbestos floor tiles, removal can create more of a problem than leaving it alone. And what about encapsulating asbestos; is that not an option?
Originally Posted By: rray This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Yeah, I wasn’t exactly thrilled with the asbestos part of the article either. It was Home Magazine, hard copy. They are at www.homemag.com.
It's a very lay magazine, with very little technospeak, but I thought the asbestos section was too alarmist, from what I understand.
I think encapsulating it is an option. In fact, I believe it was in Home Magazine several years ago that I read an article about simply putting a new ceiling in a house with the cottage cheese ceilings by using 3/8-inch plywood or drywall and simply sealing it up there. I actually did that with a 4,000 SF house that I renovated a few years ago. I had gotten a quote for removing the cottage cheese of $1.75/SF if there was no asbestos and $37.50/SF if there was asbestos (this is California which considers asbestos a hazardous material, requiring a hazmat license for proper disposal). $37.50 * 4,000 SF = $150,000. Wasn't gonna happen. Sealed it with drywall at a cost of about $12,000. Big difference.
Originally Posted By: jfarsetta This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
In NY State,m a homeowner may remediate his/her own asbestos. After removing it, they simply need to double bag it in plastic, and put it to the curb with the other trash.
This is the truth.
And, Chad... there is no more asbestos used in brake linings. Hasn't been in years...
-- Joe Farsetta
Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."
Originally Posted By: Guest This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Joe,
Brake shoes still contain asbestos, brake pads as a rule, don't, but there are some inexpensive linings that do. You're probably thinking that it's illegal to use asbestos in the mfg of brake linings. It is, in the USA, but much of the stuff we install comes from Mexico, and a lot of the boxes carry asbestos warning labels.
Originally Posted By: Bob Badger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Chad wow, I thought you where a little crazy, with all the hype over asbestos I would have figured it would not be found in new products.
Wrong, do some google searching for asbestos brakes and you can find a lot of surprising info.
This is from an auto industry paper from 2002
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The confusion stems largely from a failed effort by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency in 1991 to ban asbestos products. The prohibition lasted 28 months before being overturned by a federal appeals court.
After the ban was lifted, asbestos brakes returned.
Most of the original brakes on new cars and trucks these days are made with synthetic materials or nonasbestos materials. One notable exception: General Motors Corp. uses asbestos brakes supplied by Delphi Corp. on the Chevrolet Cavalier and Pontiac Sunfire small cars. GM is in the process of phasing the asbestos brakes out.
Originally Posted By: rfarruggia This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I did an inspection about a month ago, reported that the asbestos shingle siding was in good condition and used my usual disclaimers in the description, to wit:
Asbestos / Cement Siding
Asbestos siding does not present a health problem to the occupants of a house. Shingles are brittle and can be broken, split, or damaged. Repairs are made by replacing asbestos shingles with cement shingles lacking the asbestos binder. To improve the appearance of asbestos shingles, powerwash, caulk at windows, doors, edges, etc. and repaint.
Got a call this morning from the client, says his insurer wont insure the house because of the shingles. Boy was he pissed at me. I calmed him down, told him to call his lawyers and explain it to them. He did, and the lawyers explained to him that the insurers were just dicking him around. He called me back, all is ok now, he has a new insurer.
It seems that Met Life is the only ones who think that non-friable asbestos is a problem. I called them because I wanted to know if they had any inside info on the dangers of non-friable asbestos that the EPA or any state DEP didn't know about. I spent about an hour on the phone, slowly moving up the food chain at their underwriting department, and could get no definitive answers. I directed them to all the relative websites, got back a whole bunch of "I don't know"'s and "we'll look into that"'s.
From what it looks like, Met Life has just decided on their own that non-friable asbestos is a health hazard. I guess that they can do that. I know that insurers run in herds, so I expect the others to follow suit.
Seem like I'm going to have to amend my report. Either that or beat some sense into the underwriters at Met Life. A lot of houses here have asbestos siding. Gonna be a lot of annoyed people if Met Life is sounding a false alarm.
Originally Posted By: rray This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
rfarruggia wrote:
Asbestos siding does not present a health problem to the occupants of a house.
That's pretty definitive, way too definitive for me as a home inspector. Research is ongoing and contradictive. Therefore, I don't see how you can possibly say definitively that "asbestos siding does not present a health problem. . . ."
I think you got off lucky, myself, in that they were not calling for something more serious.
When I see something that looks like it might contain asbestos?and I'm not licensed under California laws to state definitively whether asbestos is or is not present, nor am I licensed as a hygienist or medical professional to definitively state that it does or does not cause health problems?I put this in my report:
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Asbestos apparently does not cause any problems if it is not disturbed and, in many cases, may remain in place with the owner aware of certain specific precautions regarding its care and maintenance. However, any disturbance of the material should be done by qualified personnel with experience handling asbestos materials. If Client desires to know for certain whether asbestos exists in the structure, Client should seek the specialized services of a qualified asbestos testing or remediation company. Typical areas where asbestos might be found include exhaust flues on forced air furnaces (see Illustration 1) and water wheaters (see Illustration 2) and some types of attic insulation. Recommend caution and regular homeowner monitoring and maintenance.
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Originally Posted By: dbowers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Then they want to know why we didn't tell them that, yaddi, yaddi. My stock reply is a polite "Sir, just because your insurance company decides to quit insuring blue houses does not make blue houses defective". I'm sorry but your insurance company did not contact us and provide us a heads up that they quit insuring wood shake roofs over 10 yrs. old.
I suggest you yell at them and start looking for a new insurance company.
Because of this insurance thing, I've heard quite a few of the other local inspectors say that if they think the wood shake roof is over 10 yrs old - they automatically report it as in need of replacement. That seems a bit drastic.
Originally Posted By: rray This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Only about 10% of my inspections involve wood roofs, and when I find one, they usually are showing their age (pre-1979, usually). This is my standard recommendation for my area:
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San Diego is a high fire-hazard county, and in light of the October 2003 fires, as well as previous fires, and the number of homes with wood roofs that burned relative to the number of homes with non-wood roofs that burned, HOMETEAM believes that wood roofs are inappropriate for this area and should be replaced with a more fire-resistant material. Recommend consulting with a qualified roofing contractor to determine options.
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Since I'm not a licensed roofing contractor, I don't tell them that they should replace the wood roof. I know there are lots of options for fireproofing a roof; I'm just not the one to tell them what those options are and how much they cost.
Originally Posted By: roconnor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I never use the term “asbestos” because I havent performed any testing.
How about "Apparently friable material that could be asbestos. Further evaluation and testing by a licensed professional is recommended to establish any potential risks or necessary remediation"
Just my 2 nickles
-- Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: rray This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
How about something like,
Type of [ceiling texture material, insulation on water heater flue, insulation on furnace flue, insulation on flue in attic, insulation in attic, etc.] could contain asbestos. Asbestos apparently does not cause any problems if it is not disturbed and, in many cases, may remain in place with the owner aware of certain specific precautions regarding its care and maintenance. However, any disturbance of the material should be done by qualified personnel with experience handling asbestos materials. If Client desires to know for certain whether asbestos exists in the structure, Client should seek the specialized services of a qualified asbestos testing or remediation company.
Originally Posted By: jmichalski This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Russel,
I know this an old thread, but I just came across asbestos insulated ductwork and was looking to see if anyone had an apporpriate and educational description of the condition and recommendation. Should have known you had it covered...
Thanks!
PS-I think I may include some of the links for other perspectives in my write up.
Originally Posted By: Ryan Livengood This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Just thought I would throw in my comments. In order to tell anyone that they have asbestos in their homes, you must be a certified EPA inspector at the least, under the toxic substances control act (TSCA). To tell them that they might have asbestos containing materials is ok as some of you have pointed out. Concerning some flooring material such as 9x9 tile, it is ok as long as the home owner does not drill into it, sand bast it, sand it, etc. Normal wear and tear of asbestos flooring is not a problem in 95 percent of the cases. Asbestos wraped pipes can be a problem in homes because they can become friable very easly. Asbestos that is catagory 2 non friable is of very little concern and can even be disposed of in normal C&D landfills in most places.
Originally Posted By: rray This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Ryan Livengood wrote:
In order to tell anyone that they have asbestos in their homes, you must be a certified EPA inspector at the least, under the toxic substances control act (TSCA).
Well, you don't necessarily have to because each state regulates its industries, but it would behoove one to have the best qualifications possible, especially if one carries appropriate E&O insurance which might (or might not) cover asbestos or asbestos statements.
Ryan Livengood wrote:
Concerning some flooring material such as 9x9 tile, it is ok as long as the home owner does not drill into it, sand bast it, sand it, etc. Normal wear and tear of asbestos flooring is not a problem in 95 percent of the cases. Asbestos wraped pipes can be a problem in homes because they can become friable very easly.
That other 5% can be very significant. The problem is that flooring will wear out much more easily than asbestos wrapped pipes since flooring gets walked on quite often.
Ryan Livengood wrote:
Asbestos that is catagory 2 non friable is of very little concern and can even be disposed of in normal C&D landfills in most places.
Definitely don't tell anyone in California that. All categories of asbestos disposal are regulated under California's hazardous materials regulations.
Originally Posted By: Ryan Livengood This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Ray,
Yea you do have to be certified, that is the law unlike mold. If you would like to look, its 40 cfr 746 I believe, for starters. That is the Code of Federal regulations. I am a regulatory compliance speicalist and have read many of cases dealing with regulatory and i believe criminal liability cases involving non certified asbestos inspections. I could tell you your states law too if I knew what state you worked in. About the california thing, you are right, They would be more strict about that. I was only talking about my state on that one. I can't speak for california because they are more strict on environmental issues then most other states, which is great. Wish my state was as strict as them and I would be busy until the end of time. About the flooring and piping issue. True that flooring gets walked on but the wraping on pipes deals with the expansion and contraction of whatever it is wraping and also deals with condensation and other problems which still make it an issue that should not be overlooked.
Originally Posted By: bkelly2 This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
My parents live in a house built in the 40’s with asbestos siding. Oh well. In the early 70’s we removed the asbestos roofing shingles with pry bars. I seem to be fine except for the persistent cough.
I get more worried when I go to someone?s home and they are using diatomaceous earth for their pool filter. They hardly ever read the warning label on the bag. When I point the health risks I often get a bewildered stare.
