ASHI / NACHI Q & A

Originally Posted By: dacton
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Todd,


Well Said!!!



Donald A. Acton


Acton Property & Environmental Inspection Services


North Massapequa, New York

Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Hey Brian in case you havent noticed this is a NACHI forum.


It was my understanding that this was public forum owned and operated by NACHI. Was I mistaken?

You are not even a member.

Granted.

So why dont you take your negitive attitude somewhere else and dont tell us what to do!

I wasn't aware that differing with you constituted a "negative" attitude. My bad.

I'm not out to stick my fingers in anyones' eyes here. If we're honest with each other various critisizms of both organizations are bound to crop up along the way on this thread, well founded or not. We're just kicking things around here, I can take it if you guys can.


Originally Posted By: John Bowman
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Brian A. Goodman wrote:

It was my understanding that this was public forum owned and operated by NACHI. Was I mistaken?

Don't you find it odd that nobody but NACHI has a public forum. You (meaning the other organizations) even shut out the consumer ![icon_question.gif](upload://t2zemjDOQRADd4xSC3xOot86t0m.gif) . Yet you all want to establish the ultimate State Legislation for the protection of the consumer. Seems to me the only organization that is truly leading the way to friendly consumer relations is NACHI. Through NACHI's Public Forum consumer's can ask their questions or state their concerns. Legislators are welcomed and do utilize this bb, and if they ever feel the need I'm sure they will ask their questions or state their concerns. How can anybody say they are for the consumer when they shut their doors to them?

I'm not out to stick my fingers in anyones' eyes here. If we're honest with each other various criticisms of both organizations are bound to crop up along the way on this thread, well founded or not. We're just kicking things around here, I can take it if you guys can.


We can take it. We relish it. I'm particularly fond of the way the NACHI membership and several non-members have responded to the constant criticism of NACHI and its members. Especially when I know that it is in the public's and legislature's eyes. We really should thank you all. Because of your collective efforts, many great programs have been initiated by NACHI for the betterment of the consumer. I.e. Arbitration Services, Complaint Hot Line, and Improved testing (I see from another site that some non-members have taken this and either not faired to well or complimented Gerry B. on its content).

Thank-you all and keep up the good work.


Originally Posted By: John Bowman
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Quote:

Have all states recognize ashi [seeing that they have over 25 years experience ] recommended license requirements????


I really like this statement. Statements such as these speak loudly.


Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



It’s too bad ASHI, NAHI, or IHINA to name a few don’t have a house so we could go over there and play.


They have the house, they just keep the message board shut to non-members.

Don't you find it odd that nobody but NACHI has a public forum.

Well, yes and no. Members only messages boards have always been the norm in the past. I think NACHI's idea of a public forum with a members only section is better.

You (meaning the other organizations) even shut out the consumer?

I believe ASHI does have a complaint department for consumers, just no access to the members' message board. "Shut out" seems to imply no access of any kind.

Yet you all want to establish the ultimate State Legislation for the protection of the consumer. Seems to me the only organization that is truly leading the way to friendly consumer relations is NACHI.

ASHI's political history of licensing laws is something I'm not overly well versed in, but since I've been in I've agreed with them on some (MS), disagreed with them on other (like NJ). I'm no "Yes" man for anyone. If Nick is going to send people checks, I'd have to admit that's pretty darn friendly.

Through NACHI's Public Forum consumer's can ask their questions or state their concerns. Legislators are welcomed and do utilize this bb, and if they ever feel the need I'm sure they will ask their questions or state their concerns.

Those are good things, no doubt.

How can anybody say they are for the consumer when they shut their doors to them?

There again, "shutting the doors" seems to me to be an overstatement when you really just mean the message board.

We can take it. We relish it. I'm particularly fond of the way the NACHI membership and several non-members have responded to the constant criticism of NACHI and its members.

I expected no less. From my point of view this about civily comparing and challenging each others' ideas, I can't speak for others.

Because of your collective efforts, many great programs have been initiated by NACHI for the betterment of the consumer. I.e. Arbitration Services, Complaint Hot Line, and Improved testing (I see from another site that some non-members have taken this and either not faired to well or complimented Gerry B. on its content).

The improved testing (the CMA) is one of the things that brought me here, so I guess you have Gerry to blame to some degree. I took it and publicly posted my score at TIJ (most did not), and gave Gerry my 2 cents about it. I'm convinced that when they're done tweaking the content it will be genuinely comparable to the NHIE as far as level goes. The ability to deal with multiple answers is a worthwhile innovation in our profession. The other test is problematic. Anyway, the CMA was one of the things that got me to wondering if all of the stuff I had always heard about NACHI was justified or not, so I came over to get a first-hand impression and form my own opinions.

Thank-you all and keep up the good work.

I'm here for you John! ![icon_mrgreen.gif](upload://tbe1CncrrOs48cXpHvziOT8r0T3.gif)


Originally Posted By: cmarshburn
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Quote:
so I came over to get a first-hand impression and form my own opinions.


Thats the way to do it bro, I owe an appoligy to you guys for speaking out of turn about "branding" and the such. I should have done what you are doing now and just asked. But it would have been easier if you jokers had a public board ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)


--
Chris Marshburn

Marshburn Home Inspections

Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



… I owe an apoligy to you guys for speaking out of turn about “branding” and the such.


If you said something defamatory about Branding we have something in common, no apology needed. ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)


Originally Posted By: dbowers
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



" Test anywhere that could possibly test your competance to do HI’s, and to get the ASHI Standards


written into the individual States Licensing laws as the state SOP.


That said - they've been suiccessful some places - not in others. Several states that have their own SOP that immediately come to mind are Texas, Nevada and I believe one of the Carolina's. As you know when licensing first came up in Arizona - the Arizona guys (which was led by many old time ASHI members, including a past National ASHI President) rejected the newer ASHI SOP (too vague and provided less protection for consumers than the older ones) and adapted an older set of ASHI Stds.

As a trainer, I get asked about the various state tests and Stds. quite frequently. The NHIE is not the most stringent nor well worded test out there, and the ASHI SOP may be what most other groups used as a starting point to base theirs on (they were the 1st), but a lot of other groups have developed SOP's that are easier for the consumer or inspectors to read and understand and provide better protection for all.

I hope this helps


Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



I’m sure you’re right about the history Dan, I haven’t been around long enough to know what all has transpired. I’m in favor of any improvements to SOP’s or national exams, whoever does them.


Originally Posted By: jburkeson
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Deleted… icon_biggrin.gif



Joseph Burkeson, RPI (Hooperette)


?Anyone who has proclaimed violence his method inexorably must choose lying as his principle.?
~ Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Originally Posted By: jhagarty
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



jburkeson wrote:


If I may paraphrase another NACHI member... "NACHI is like a huge train that everyone said could never be moved, now that it is rolling along, best to get out of the way, cause here is a train that can't be stopped.

It has become very clear that ASHI/FABI will not control the direction of the home inspection profession here in Florida (one of ASHI's flagship states) from here on out, if and when licensing or regulation comes to Florida it will be NACHI who defines it.



Joe B:

It was great meeting you last night. I left the meeting last evening with the same thoughts.

It was impressive to see such a large turnout of men and women dedicated to the growth of HI Professionalism in attendance at the event. Home Inspectors and the Consumers will be truly served as the momentum continues across Florida. The guest speakers that I was seated with expressed similar comments to my Father and I.

Harvey:

You did a fantastic job in organizing the event. I hope to continue to provide assistance in any way that I can.


--
Joseph Hagarty

HouseMaster / Main Line, PA
joseph.hagarty@housemaster.com
www.householdinspector.com

Phone: 610-399-9864
Fax : 610-399-9865

HouseMaster. Home inspections. Done right.

Originally Posted By: Guest
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Hi Joe,


ASHI's membership requirements preclude opening the door to all NACHI members solely because they are a NACHI member.

Currently, NACHI's entrance exam isn't quite as demanding as ASHI's and ASHI has an inspecton number requirement as well. I'm sure all NACHI members that meet ASHI's criteria are welcome to join.

That aside, both organizations should recognize that there is a common goal involved which is simply to promote competence in our profession.


Originally Posted By: John Bowman
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Chad Fabry wrote:
Hi Joe,

ASHI's membership requirements preclude opening the door to all NACHI members solely because they are a NACHI member.

True. But you shouldn't have just stopped at NACHI this includes anyone from any other organization.

Currently, NACHI's entrance exam isn't quite as demanding as ASHI's and ASHI has an inspecton number requirement as well. I'm sure all NACHI members that meet ASHI's criteria are welcome to join.

Huh! ASHI has an entrance exam now. I didn't know that. I thought you just paid your entrance fee and were designated a C (something or another) until you gained a certain amount of inspections and passed the ASHI sponsored NHIE where upon you were then designated a C (something else). All necessary steps needed to get your full membership status some time or another. Please correct me if I'm misinterpretating this.

That aside, both organizations should recognize that there is a common goal involved which is simply to promote competence in our profession.


Nice statement. Not only ASHI and NACHI, but NAHI and all the others.


Originally Posted By: jhagarty
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



jburkeson wrote:


"NACHI is like a huge train that everyone said could never be moved, now that it is rolling along, best to get out of the way, cause here is a train that can't be stopped.

It has become very clear that ASHI/FABI will not control the direction of the home inspection profession here in Florida (one of ASHI's flagship states) from here on out, if and when licensing or regulation comes to Florida it will be NACHI who defines it.


Chad:

Joe Burkeson, Harvey Gordon, Greg Bell and others have demonstrated (and will continue to do so) what it takes to get the job done. Florida Home Inspectors and Consumers within the State could not be better served. The thoughts and ideals of these individuals are over the top

Florida Inspectors are being given the autonomy to decide and shape the legislative future of their business. I hope to provide continued assistance and support in helping the local chapters.

In Florida, it is not about the Organization. It is about helping the Individual Inspector and their Business growth. That is where all others pale in comparison to NACHI.


--
Joseph Hagarty

HouseMaster / Main Line, PA
joseph.hagarty@housemaster.com
www.householdinspector.com

Phone: 610-399-9864
Fax : 610-399-9865

HouseMaster. Home inspections. Done right.

Originally Posted By: jhagarty
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Joe B:


Great Observation.

More members joined NACHI at 1 Chapter Meeting than ASHI appears to have signed last month. This was done without mention of any other Organization at the meeting.

NACHI will continue to grow on its own merit. Other will continue to fail on their perceived benefit.

While NACHI focuses on positive growth, others succumb to expressing criticism.

It is not difficult to recognize the Leading Team.


--
Joseph Hagarty

HouseMaster / Main Line, PA
joseph.hagarty@housemaster.com
www.householdinspector.com

Phone: 610-399-9864
Fax : 610-399-9865

HouseMaster. Home inspections. Done right.

Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



It has become very clear that ASHI/FABI will not control the direction of the home inspection profession here in Florida (one of ASHI’s flagship states) from here on out, if and when licensing or regulation comes to Florida it will be NACHI who defines it.


I daresay the Florida legislature will do the defining. If you can predict which way thier wind is blowing this far in advance I'd like to talk to you about a lottery number.

I find it ironic that it took a 40% drop in membership, to garner a little respect

What 40 % drop are you claiming? National, state, what?

...personally until ASHI offers across-the-board full membership to full NACHI members they will be less than credible and our profession will suffer...

ASHI has thier share of problems, but credibility isn't one of them.

...only when we are truly equal can the real work begin.

Now THAT I agree with.

The ball is truly in their court, each-and-every day NACHI grows, gains respect in both community and government and becomes a more powerful force to reckon with, a trend reversal is very unlikely. More-and-more NACHI is becoming the preferred leader in the home inspection industry, ASHI should consider the facts and respond accordingly.

I think the ball is very much in both courts. Easy on the hype Joe, most of these guys have already joined.

The can point their fingers at Nick, hold their breath until they turn blue, and stomp their feet till they are numb, the facts are that we now dwarf them in all measurable aspects, something they need to accept before we can move on.

You "dwarf" them? 6,000 heads over there, but you dwarf them?


Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



ASHI’s membership requirements preclude opening the door to all NACHI members solely because they are a NACHI member.


When I first read that I thought it said if you were NACHI then ASHI wouldn't let you in. But yes, the membership requirements over there have always been for everyone. BUT, I'm told CREIA (?) was given a reciporical agreement not too long ago, so maybe the wheel is turning on that one.

Currently, NACHI's entrance exam isn't quite as demanding as ASHI's and ASHI has an inspecton number requirement as well. I'm sure all NACHI members that meet ASHI's criteria are welcome to join.

That's a mis-statement. ASHI does not have an entrance exam. Anyone who can meet the requirements is welcome.

That aside, both organizations should recognize that there is a common goal involved which is simply to promote competence in our profession.

I agree, but it won't be easy.


Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Huh! ASHI has an entrance exam now. I didn’t know that.


They don't, see above post.

I thought you just paid your entrance fee and were designated a C (something or another) until you gained a certain amount of inspections and passed the ASHI sponsored NHIE where upon you were then designated a C (something else). All necessary steps needed to get your full membership status some time or another. Please correct me if I'm misinterpretating this.

There are more steps to moving up to C-2 than just the NHIE and the 50 inspections. Look back at the posts at the end of the "yellow pages" thread.

"ASHI sponsored" seems to be a popular way of dismissing the NHIE with some. I don't get it. Yes ASHI created it, yes they lobby for it in legislation, but they spun it off to the EBPHI or whatever it is years ago (which ASHI does not own). There's a board that reviews and refines the test every year. ASHI is on the board, but does not own it either. If you think I'm just being a "homer" on this, try the shoe on the other foot for a minute. Let's assume (rightly I think) that Gerry and the EC tweak the CMI exam very well and it becomes an equal or slightly better exam than the NHIE. NACHI then does the right thing and sets up 3rd party proctoring (like the NHIE has), the promotes it when they lobby for legislation (just like ASHI does). Some one from a competeing org jumps up at a meeting and says "That's just the NACHI sponsored test! They just want it because they own it!" Fair criticism? Is it less of a test because NACHI created it? I certainly don't think so.


Nice statement. Not only ASHI and NACHI, but NAHI and all the others.


Right John, I agree. It would take at least all of the major players to create any real change.


Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



…during which time ASHI continues to loose… members, inspections, money, stature, chapters, licensing legislature, etc, etc, etc. While gaining the animosity of the entire home inspection profession.


It is obvious to all, that ASHI is poised for more failure, any way you choose to graph it, stats are down, the patient is dying, and without a cure in the near future, straights look dire.


Another big dose of hype. I'm pleased to say that no one over at the ASHI board is posting about the imminent demise of NACHI every other day, everyone knows better. ASHI cannot kill NACHI and NACHI cannot kill ASHI, they're both just too big. Claims to that effect by either side are silly.

Believe me when I say that ASHI's continued inability to live up to its members goals do not benefit NACHI, and if ASHI were to fail completely it would not be all that good for NACHI or our membership.

I can't say I understand that one.

If ASHI were truly concerned with the profession at-large and not merely their survival, working closely with NACHI would not cause the paranoia it does, the entire opposite would happen, and it would be viewed as a sign of strength within our profession.

If they and the other major orgs could work out thier differences, it would be great for the profession. But given that there are a number of serious philosophical differences, it will be tough to do. Everyone would have to compromise.


Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Brian,


My reply to your last thread is not a swipe at you, so please dont take it that way. I am trying to be more diplomatic (like my compadre Gerry B), rather that my normally combattive self. That notwithstanding...

I dont believe that many ASHI members WANT to work anything out with NACHI. On this side of the fence, I believe the same to be true.

As to that general feeling, I would ask you to remember that NACHI has been regarded as illegitimate by many ASHI members, by and large. You can see this everyday on this very message board. But, one would then have to ask why are there so many folks monitoring what is said or done over here? Just look at Scott Patterson, who seems to monitor these threads and jumps to ASHI's defense at a moments notice. He hasnt figured out that nobody around here really cares what he thinks. I hate to burst his bubble, but it's really true.

ASHI has hidden behind individual chapters taking potshots at us for years. The frivilous lawsuits are scary. Just look at Pennsylvania.

Many of us feel that we owe ASHI nothing. They do not recognize NACHI, and never look to collaborate with us on anything which would help inspectors. Instead, they continue to push protectionist legislation wherever they can. As an org, they should have denounced the legislative debacle in NJ; legislation which, I may add, screwed many an ASHI member. Did they? Absolutely not. Instead, they ranked NJ's legislation #1. Imagine that. I would personally pay dues to ANYONE trying to help me, rather than pay money to dig my own grave.

So, there is some background as to some of the animous felt around here for ASHI, and certain ASHI folks who believe NACHI to be a threat, and bash us at every opportunity. It's an ugly fact. Our cuts are deep, and we have the scars to prove it.

Should we work together to improve the industry? Sure. But not at the expense of this org or its members. The ball has been in ASHI's court for some time. It is not in both courts. You are mistaken. We dont have the ball by any stretch of the imagination. We gave it to ASHI long ago. They just dont know what to do with it.

We're like the little kid who was bad-mouthed and bullied through elementary school. Well, we grew tall and strong. It's high school now, and we're not taking any crap. We were always here, and despite all our perceived shortcomings, have risen to the challenge.

As to the perception that NACHI is nowhere and has no clout in the legislative forums surrounding HI licensing, be aware that legislators ARE listening to us. Just look at what happened in NY recently. We didnt have to spend a dime. We did better than all the orgs, crybabies, and lobbiests combined. We were honest and forthright. We spoke plainly, and told it like it was (and is).

Some are uncomfortable with that. They blink in disbelief. Instead, they still take every opportunity to slam our ED, our entrance exam, and this org. Take our entrance exam. It's an ENTRANCE EXAM. I would sincerely hope it was an easy test for an experienced inspector or one with some basic knowledge of our industry. It's an ENTRANCE EXAM...

Even your own question as to "Who owns NACHI"... Who cares? Certainly not the overwhelming majority of our membership. There are a few who occasionally ask the question. Except for a handfull of members, all inquiries along these lines come from the outside.

This very thread "ASHI / NACHI Q&A". Informative? Maybe.... But, who will it sway? Most folks that join us do so for the benefits. It's a no-brainer.

Only one question is pertinant to the issue. Is membership in NACHI worth the $289? If one believes so, then they join. If they dont, then they dont join. If they think they wasted their money or time, they dont renew.

It's really that simple. Our numbers, and the efforts of individual members who choose to get involved, is what helps us to continue to grow (by leaps and bounds), and gets us recognition by legislators. The other fact is that most folks just plain LIKE us.

Wow, what a concept...

Finally... you needn't dissect this post, and respond paragraph by parqagraph. It is what it is...


--
Joe Farsetta

Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."