Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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http://www.eatonhand.com/img/IMG00013.htm
--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm
http://www.eatonhand.com/img/IMG00013.htm
Originally Posted By: jstevens
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joe that is gross .well i know now i will never touch a panel with the front of my hand first .i will use the back of my hand first .keep up the good work jim
Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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I must admit that I received a message once asking what I do when I come up onto a “hot panel” and I replied that I would check to see if there were any loose connections, or over sized breakers and loads.
I guess I was not thinking about the same "Hot Panel", anyway who teaches the Home Inspector to use the "back of the hand" to check to see if the panel is "hot" energized?
I never was taught to do that, and want to know where this practice comes from?
--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm
Originally Posted By: jstevens
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hi joe i learned this trick in school on line course ita i thought every one new this if you cant hold on to a hot panel you cant get burned like in the picture you will still get a shock but not bad i hear
jim
Originally Posted By: tallen
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Sounds like one of them there urban myths.
–
I have put the past behind me,
where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.
www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net
30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005
Originally Posted By: jstevens
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todd you mean you never heard that one before
jim
Originally Posted By: tallen
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Yes, I have heard it. The inspector I did my parallels with told me to do it. He never did though. I think at the least you should use a tick tester.Or if possible a wiggy or multi meter. And don’t forget your gloves!
–
I have put the past behind me,
where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.
www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net
30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005
Originally Posted By: jstevens
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todd. its in my home inspection course by ITA, and you would not know if it was hot if you had gloves on .testin it did not ocur to me
Originally Posted By: tallen
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James,
You wear the gloves while your testing it. Just in case 
If you use the back of your hand and your grounded and the panel box is hot your going to get shocked why would you do that? It might not be quite as dangerous as grabbing it with with your bare hand,but its still getting shocked and it might just kill ya!!
I have heard that you can feel the electricity before you actually get shocked.
I have been shocked more times than I care to admit and I never felt it coming.
--
I have put the past behind me,
where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.
www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net
30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005
Originally Posted By: jhorton
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I have a friend that is an electrician in an industrial setting. So he sometimes has to work on 660V panels hot. They have certain methods they use. Like standing a dry wood platform, put the left hand behind your back while gripping your belt. Then work with the right hand while you partner stands there with a wooden baseball bat to knock you free if you get shocked. He said a broken arm from the bat was better than dying.
The thought behind this is when you get shocked your muscles tighten and you can actually grip the panel or wire tighter and you are not able to let go. With you free hand gripping you belt you don't have both hands on the panel from reflex to push yourself away. That's why the partner with a none conductive baseball bat to knock you arm free.
Based on that I assume the same reasoning applies to touching a panel with the back of you hand. If you muscles contract your not as likely to grip onto something unable to turn loose and kill yourself.
--
Jeff <*\\><
The man who tells the truth doesn't have to remember what he said.
Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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PM sent to me yesterday:
| Quote: |
| I check a hot panel with a voltage tester. I was taught to move possible hot wires with the back of my hand. When you are electrocuted the hand muscles tighten, and the electricity forces your hand to contract and grab the hot wires.
It is best to always touch hot, or potentially hot wires with gloves made especially for electrical shocks, or use a stick to move them. I learned this stuff in Fire Science in college. |
--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm
Originally Posted By: tallen
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Jeff,
In my opinion. Your friend should be standing on a rubber mat and be wearing electricians boots, “hot” gloves, Face shield
, protective clothing and have rubber blankets lining the bare edges of the equipment they are working on. All with the appropriate ratings.
My 1.32 cents
--
I have put the past behind me,
where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.
www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net
30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005
Originally Posted By: hgordon
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Darn Joe…maybe you should warn us in the future about how graphic it will be!!
By the way, I also was told by my teacher to tap the panel FIRSt with the back of my hand...and I mean a quick tap...this way if the panel is hot your hand will not grip the panel...are you saying this is wrong?
Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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Harvey:
So Sorry, The title was the warning  ...
Be Safe! Be Careful! Graphic Hand Burns!
Let me get this straight, the
- Back Of The Hand
If it was alive, you should stop immediately and recommend the services of an electrician?
WARNING Now this picture --- it is really GRAPHIC!!
http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/more/burned.jpg
--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm
Originally Posted By: hgordon
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AW!!!
Joe...dude!!! What ever you say...I'll do it...you got my attention!
--
Harvey Gordon
SE Florida NACHI Chapter - President
hgordon@fl.nachi.org
Originally Posted By: tallen
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Joe,
What do you suggest?
--
I have put the past behind me,
where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.
www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net
30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005
Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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Read through this and between the lines for typical everyday clothing.
I will simplify the recommendation when I get home. Sears sells FR fire resistant clothing and a search for Oberon will get you to a website where the basic gloves and other safety PPE can be reviewed.
| Quote: |
| (C) Personal Protective Equipment.
(1) General. When an employee is working within the Flash Protection Boundary he/she shall wear protective clothing and other personal protective equipment in accordance with 130.3. (2) Movement and Visibility. When flame-resistant (FR) clothing is worn to protect an employee, it shall cover all ignitible clothing and shall allow for movement and visibility. (3) Head, Face, Neck, and Chin Protection. Employees shall wear nonconductive head protection wherever there is a danger of head injury from electric shock or burns due to contact with live parts or from flying objects resulting from electrical explosion. Employees shall wear nonconductive protective equipment for the face, neck, and chin whenever there is a danger of injury from exposure to electric arcs or flashes or from flying objects resulting from electrical explosion. FPN: See 130.7(C)(13)(b) for arc flash protective requirements. (4) Eye Protection. Employees shall wear protective equipment for the eyes whenever there is danger of injury from electric arcs, flashes, or from flying objects resulting from electrical explosion. (5) Body Protection. Employees shall wear FR clothing wherever there is possible exposure to an electric arc flash above the threshold incident-energy level for a second degree burn, 5 J/cm2 (1.2 cal/cm2). Exception: For incident-energy exposures 8.36 J/cm2 (2 cal/cm2) and below, employees may wear non-melting clothing described in Hazard/Risk Category 0 in Table 130.7(C)(11). FPN: Such clothing can be provided as shirt and trousers, or as coveralls, or as a combination of jacket and trousers, or, for increased protection, as coveralls with jacket and trousers. Various weight fabrics are available. Generally, the higher degree of protection is provided by heavier weight fabrics and/or by layering combinations of one or more layers of FR clothing. |
In some cases one or more
--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm
Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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Really doesn’t take much to hurt you!
--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm
Originally Posted By: jwortham
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I spent 15 years doing industrial electronics. 480V 3 phase panels with anywhere from 20 to 600 amps running through them with a DC bus running up to 700 VDC.
I would no more have used the back of my hand to touch a potentially hot panel in that environment than I would have flapped my arms and tried to fly. I understand the reasoning, but a shock is a shock. Good to not hang on, but still painful and potentionally lethal.
That said, I also do not believe those burns came from a residential setting. Is it possible? Sure. Anything is possible.
If I shorted out the service conductors coming into the house with a screwdriver, I would expect something similar might happen.
I don't think home inspectors are going to typically run into anything even vaguely possible of this kind of damage, but once again, anything is possible.
Use your ticker, wiggie, multimeter first. Check for voltage. Taking off the panel, wear your gloves. (Even if just to protect yourself from sharp metal edges.) Safety glasses are not a bad idea. Anything more, I just believe is overkill and possibly alarmist. I know I would be alarmed if my inspector was geared up like a gladiator going into battle to do nothing more than remove the electrical cover.
But it's your life and limb. Do what YOU need to do to feel safe.
This is just my opinion!!! Your mileage may vary!
Originally Posted By: bhendry
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Hi there,
The Coast Guard teaches you to touch a hatch/door/bulkhead, etc. with the back of your hand when dealing with a fire. The idea is that you can still use your hand afterward if you touched the wrong hot thing.
It seems that touching is pretty much touching when it comes to electricity.
Regards,
Bill