Same reasons that Licensed car/truck drivers have accidents…
Licensing along with theory and practical will [FONT=Verdana]reduce accidents but not eliminate them.[/FONT]
Cheers,
Gilles,
Surely, no one will disagree with your statement and also that licensing drivers saves lives.
Cheers,
Only a Country mile!!!:shock:
Contrary to Licensing…
what is Occurring currently in Canada…
Is …
Inspectors (lacking the same “Self Professed / Self Important Contractor Credentials”)
are finding deficiencies in Construction…
That is Unacceptable…
Your Apprenticeship / Training / Years requirement for Contractors is FAILED…
Accept it and OWN it…
It is what it is…
Certifying, Licensing and placing additional requirements on the Inspector who comes along AFTER THE HOUSE IS BUILT…
Hello…
is Too Late…
Licensing only perpetuates the Myth that is already evident…
I’m a great believer in market equilibrium as opposed to “state” intervention, period! But the “real” world is experiencing more and more regulation including (in) our profession!
That’s unfortunate but I fear we (U.S & Canada) will see more and more of it!
Too bad…
G
I agree that if Contractors and Drivers were perfect, there would be no need for Home Inspectors and Traffic Police. And we would all be without a job!
Being that no one is perfect, Home Inspectors and Traffic Police will always be in demand.
As you said above:
Inspectors (lacking the same “Self Professed / Self Important Contractor Credentials”) are finding deficiencies in Construction…
Just imagine the demand for Home Inspector’s if they were properly trained and licensed…
[quote=“mgratton, post:46, topic:71425”]
**Just imagine the demand for Home Inspector’s if they were properly trained and licensed…/**QUOTE]
The quality is determined by those requiring it…
The government is only interested in deflating the value and accessibility of quality services in the interest of Taxation and Revenue…
As one has already said…
In canada,
The Requirements of the Contractors providing Housing are beyond reproach…
However…
mistakes happen…
and they are found…
by a system of Checks and Balances…
Municipall Inspectors work for the Community to extract Dollars from Builders for the good of the State…
The consumer be damned…
By Untrained, Unlicensed, Unapprenticed Inspectors…
Concerned about the Consumer…
that is changing…
Assimilation under the Government (Canada or USA) Model…
serves what purpose??
[QUOTE=jhagarty;942400
The quality is determined by those requiring it…
Just FYI, Quality is not a mandate of our building codes but public health and safety at minimum levels and structural sufficiency. If every house was a high quality house built way above code requirements, many folks working hard at lower paying jobs could never even dream of home ownership.
Those that have the funds and knowledge can receive a much higher quality home than code requires.
The government is only interested in deflating the value and accessibility of quality services in the interest of Taxation and Revenue…
As one has already said…
In canada,
The Requirements of the Contractors providing Housing are beyond reproach…
However…
mistakes happen…
and they are found…
by a system of Checks and Balances…
Municipall Inspectors work for the Community to extract Dollars from Builders for the good of the State…
The consumer be damned…
By Untrained, Unlicensed, Unapprenticed Inspectors…
Concerned about the Consumer…
that is changing…
Assimilation under the Government (Canada or USA) Model…
serves what purpose??[/QUOTE]
These last 3 highlighted statements lead me to believe that the speaker has been “programmed” throughout his life. He should visit Canada and see what our communist state is like…NOT!!
This post was copied from another MB and reposted with the permission of the writer.
Just read Bill Mullens pathetic statement on Nachi.
Please explain to Bill the reason for the back lash is because as usual
he (Bill) and Claude made negligent misrepresentative press releases,
yet again. He should learn to report accurately without the need of
embellishment something he has a record of doing repeatedly.
Bill is not the messiah he thinks he is.
Remember nothing is final its only a Memoranda of Understanding and is
in the preliminary stages!
Everyone is tired of hearing that NHICC is the only game in town.
NHICC is a private entity set up by home inspectors and appointments to
the board are done internally at this point so its not as if NHICC is
totally at arms length, if you look at the make up of the board its home
inspectors and ‘friends’ of NHICC and the usual cronies telling the rest
of us how things should be.
Claude in my opinion has too many rolls in all of it, after all he is an
owner of an inspection supply company, college course provider at
Humber, and Chair of NHICC, no different than the conflicts Nick could
be said to have.
BRYCE - FACT: I no longer teach for Humber College, so at least lets get that fact straight for a start. I have not delivered a home inspector training course for the past 2 years, except for my regular teaching duties at St. Clair College - Architecture Program.
So please point out the real conflict of interest. Remember even the corporations act recognizes the difference between real (actual) and perceived (someone else belief) conflict of interest.
Opinions are just that - someones personal belief, whether it’s true or not! Everyone is also tired of hearing the other crap that they are the best thing around.
BTW: TheNHICC Board of Directors and Advisors are far from a board of cronies and friends - which include a First Nations rep, an insurance company rep and two public consumer reps. How many of these sit on the other home inspection association boards?
Conflicts of interest are ubiquitous, but that doesn’t mean they are all the same and are all acceptable. Where a conflict or potential conflict does develop, I and others on the board promptly disclose all pertinent facts – the questionable as well as the obviously objectionable. In many instances, the only consequence has been disqualification of the person from participating in a particular transaction, or a finding that the condition appearing questionable is not significant. As such the NHICC has specific policy in place to uphold removal if one breaching that trust.
When all is said and done, the secrets to successful management of conflicts are quite basic: Be aware of your obligations; exercise good judgment; and communicate and document effectively.
So if you have documents to prove otherwise - feel free to offer your factual evidence of my wrong doing.
But at least in the meantime we agree on something - the conflict of interest that Nick represents. But remember that’s also alleged, until proven by documentation.
AS POSTED ELSEWHERE;
Fact - Harry Janssen is business partner of Claude of Home Inspection Support Services he teaches night courses (Inspection Support Services course) at Humber College. Harry Janssen also is report verifier for NHICC. So in my opinion it can hardly be said that because Claude no longer teaches at Humber there is no conflict. He is one of the owners!
He is the course material provider
http://www.inspectsupport.com/newSiteTesting/contact.html
Claude is also the only one other than Nick which owns a business directly selling to home inspectors and is Chair of a national organization. There is a perception of conflict.
This is the same guy who posted that the CSA press release was merely ‘puffery’ justifying purposely misleading info about the CSA/NHICC connection which again is only a MOU. Even OAHI has threatened legal action due to the misstatements. Claude is the CEO of NHICC he should practice good leadership, none of which I have seen frankly from him.
Who do you think asked the people to serve on the advisory council?
The Nat. Cert. Council is made up of -
- Claude - Home Inspector/Course Provider/Business Owner/Chair NHICC
- Gary Wood - home -inspector - http://www.homealyze.com
- Roger Chamberlain - home inspector - http://housereview.ca/about.html
- Bill Mullen - home inspector - http://www.bluewaterhomeinspection.com/what.htm
- Wayne Christopher - home inspector - www.christopherhomeinspection.com
- George Webb - http://www.homeprohelps.com
- Brian Crewe - home inspector - Quebec
- Reid Shepherd - Home Inspector- http://www.atlanticbuildinginspectors.com
He also is selling franchises.
Advisory Council
-
Rose Marie Moore Chair of Advisory Council - Home Inspector - Roger Chamberlain - home inspector - http://housereview.ca/about.html
-
Sean Wiens - home inspector
-
Bud Jobin - First Nations - Okay not a home inspector - But President of First Nations Building Officials - http://www.fnnboa.ca/documents/newsletters/2005-Spring-FNNBOA-Newsletter.pdf
Claude Lawrenson, RHI, RSW- Appointed Council Member FNNBOA
Claude Lawrenson has been appointed Registrar for the Council. He is a Coordinator and Professor at the School of Architecture & Building Design and Technology, and Program Curriculum Devel- opment Coordinator at St. Clair College of Applied Arts and Technology (Windsor Ontario) – Architec- tural Program.
-
Alan Spisak - Home Inspector - Convicted criminal who stole and was convicted of fraud to the tune of $300K from the Sudbury School District.
-
Bill Crawford - retired Chief Technical Officer for Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation.
-
James Robar - is a retired Director of Technical Research for Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
There is also a big difference between Directors and Advisors. Directors run the operation, advisors as you know provide advice. They don’t make decisions.
Where did anyone say there was evidence of wrong doing? What there appears to be is an appointment of acquaintances and home inspectors which could be seen as a conflict?
Successful management? Thats an understatement this is the same guy who replied to misleading press releases as puffery and perfectly fine and writes it off as nothing of importance. Good judgment my ***. Communicate and document effectively? Hows that when you have him ignoring misleading statements to the press?
Remember Claude and his buddies were part of the CAHPI Nat. Cert. program fraught with conflicts, egos, financial accountability issues.
George, where is your famous bottom tag “Join the ACHI” gone? And its funny how you try to belittle other people for being not responsible but at the same time you never answered numerous inquiries about your own “union” association finances asked on this board.
Looks like this ACHI (any connection to NACHI?) group has fizzled out to essentially 1 member. Found a website but with only 2 posters since December 2011. Was “Bricker” the founder of this group?
Hello Nathan
Most standards in Canada are based on the ASHI SOP, but more so the other significant standards are identification of the “occupational skills” required to become “proficient” in performing the job (task identification).
In my opinion there are no major differences other than the associations that claim the use of the Standard of Practice. The SOP simply put states what the inspector “will do and the scope of what they do not do”.
Bill is talking about “National Occupational Standards” that were originally part of an indepth review largely subsidized by CMHC & HRSDC. Both are federal government bodies in Canada.
On another note - you are not out of touch! The reality is the industry is fractured in Canada, largely because of associations beating each other up, politics and of course a good dose of BS.
C’mon Claude. Neither of Canada’s two licensed provinces mandate those outdated Standards of Practice. Neither of Canada’s two largest inspection associations (CanNACHI and InterNACHI) use those outdated Standards of Practice.
Both InterNACHI’s Residential SOP and Commercial SOP are the most widely used inspection Standards of Practice in the world.
Checking this morning, we have 1,047 InterNACHI members in Canada and 605 InterNACHI members in Ontario. On their own website, ASHI lists a whopping 10 members there.
See ya at the CSA meeting.
Here add this also! 259 comments so far.
Take a look at what everyone is saying.
Home inspection laws urged to protect consumers
**Canadian inspection industry needs to set a ‘higher bar’ **
** By Marlene Habib, CBC News **
**Posted: Nov 9, 2011 5:23 AM ET **
**Last Updated: Nov 9, 2011 7:02 AM ET **
Read 259 comments259](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/11/08/home-inspection-regulations-push.html#socialcomments)
**Related Links**
[P.O.V.: Did you get an inspection when you bought your home?](http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourcommunity/2011/11/did-you-get-an-inspection-when-you-bought-your-home.html)[Homebuyer with huge bill not told about old leak](http://www.cbc.ca/thenational/indepthanalysis/gopublic/story/2011/11/04/bc-homedefect.html)[Home inspector must bay $192,000](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/11/11/bc-home-inspection-lawsuit.html)
**External Links**
[Consumer Protection BC: Home inspections](http://www.consumerprotectionbc.ca/consumers-home-inspections)[Service Alberta: Home inspections](http://www.servicealberta.gov.ab.ca/1774.cfm) *(Note:CBC does not endorse and is not responsible for the content of external links.)*
*Even consumers looking to buy a new home should have it evaluated by a licensed and qualified home inspector, industry members urge. * (Sean Kilpatrick/Canadian Press)The case of a B.C. consumer who bought a home that required $50,000 in water-leakage repairs after the seller signed a disclosure statement and the home was inspected stresses the need for national inspection standards regulated by the provinces, some industry members and educators say.
British Columbia and Alberta are the only provinces that have regulated the home inspection industry, requiring that inspectors be licensed.
Elsewhere in the country, the industry is self-regulated by various associations with different sets of standards, and membership is largely voluntary.
Blain Swan, president of the Canadian Association of Home & Property Inspectors (CAHPI), says there needs to be a unified set of standards made mandatory across the country.'A home is probably the biggest purchase we make, and it can have a huge impact on us financially. It can have far-reaching and fairly consequential results if you don’t get it right.'—Colin Kirkwood, dean of technology programs,Sault College in Ontario.“At least there is a bar somewhere [in B.C. and Alberta] that someone has to meet,” Swan, a home inspector in Truro, N.S., said in an interview Tuesday. "We [CAHPI] are pushing for higher bars because we believe they belong high in order to provide adequate consumer protection.
“We would like to see one national licensing standard that would be administered at the provincial level.”
Swan and other industry members and educators were contacted to comment on a CBC Go Public story Monday involving Glen Plummer, who says the $596,000 home he bought in Victoria required $50,000 in repairs even after the seller signed a disclosure statement denying he was aware of any water issues.
Plummer said the home inspector he hired “was very clear that they can look for visible defects. They can’t look for anything that can’t be seen by just kind of poking around.”
’Just poking around’ not enough
According to industry interests, “just poking around” isn’t good enough.
P.O.V.:
Did you get an inspection when you bought your home? Take our survey.
Industry figures estimate 77 per cent of Canadians use the services of a home inspector. The CAHPI calls home inspection one of the fastest growing professions in North America because of increased consumer awareness, some government legislation and increased liability.
Home inspectors must understand how the systems and components found in a home perform and mature over time, according to the CAHPI. These systems include items such as structural components, exterior components, roofing, plumbing, electrical, heating, air conditioning, interior, insulation and ventilation. The cost for a home inspection varies, but is generally between $400 and $600.
CAHPI is developing a national program based on its registered home inspection designation “to raise the bar for competency across the country,” Swan says.
“Our goal would be to have the registered home inspector designation recognized by all governments, and to be the accepted level of competency.”
In March 2009, B.C. became the first province to mandate that all home and property inspectors be licensed. The regulation was in place several months before the **(http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/11/11/bc-home-inspection-lawsuit.html) to pay nearly $200,000 in compensation to a North Vancouver couple for a faulty inspection he performed on the home they bought for $1.1 million in 2006.
Alberta’s Home Inspection Business Regulation took force earlier this year after consumers, home inspectors and the real estate industry indicated widespread support for regulation during public consultations with government.
“Many Albertans take the prudent step of getting an inspection when buying a home and they trust that advice when making their decision,” Gael MacLeod, who chaired a committee advising the government on the regulation, said in May when the new law was announced. “Alberta’s new rules will give homebuyers the assurance that the inspector is a qualified professional.”
Thinking of buying a home? For tips on using a home inspector, click here.
The law also requires, among other things, that home inspection businesses carry errors and omission insurance — which covers any claims against inspectors if consumers files complaints that they are negligent or made mistakes. As well, Service Alberta investigates consumers complaints, and any home inspector who violate the regulation could be suspended, have his or her licence cancelled, and may be subject to a maximum fine of $100,000 and up to two years in jail.
One of the biggest complaints Swan and other industry leaders have is that getting licensed or certified can just mean taking a three-day course over the internet. Some courses also don’t necessarily require that inspectors-in-training be evaluated for their performances on the job.
“What’s really critical to licensing is a competency review, and not just a written test,” says Swan. “There has to be a home inspection performed in front of a senior inspector — someone with credentials.”
New homes also need scrutiny
Another school of thought in raising the standards of the home inspection industry is offering the profession in post-secondary schools.
Colin Kirkwood, dean of technology programs at Sault College in Sault Ste. Marie, Ont., says the school’s home inspection technician program was launched in September with 34 students after an advisory committee determined a formal education program would benefit homeowners.
“A home is probably the biggest purchase we make, and it can have a huge impact on us financially,” Kirkwood said.
“It can have far-reaching and fairly consequential results if you don’t get it right. This [Sault College program] hopefully will be a catalyst for the industry in terms of change,” he said, noting the college has received requests from other schools across the country about possibly helping them develop their own home inspection programs.
Sault College’s two-year program is much like the other apprenticeship programs at the college, giving students trade skills such as plumbing, carpentry and electrical training, he said.
“Students go through the training they would go through to actually build a house, and know how to build it right and understand the codes from the inside out,” Kirkwood said, adding there’s also a co-op placement component to the program, where students may work with a home inspector or do residential construction jobs.
Swan says his association would also like home inspections to be made mandatory, for instance, whenever someone is taking out a mortgage, and he warns someone buying a newly built home or condominium also shouldn’t just assume it would pass any inspection.
“The trouble with newer housing is it’s built to the national building code [NBC], and the NBC is minimum requirements,” he says, adding, “Sometimes a newer building is not insulated properly, for instance.”**
I’m pleased that they think so highly of Alberta’s regulation… especially since Alberta approved all of InterNACHI’s courses for pre-licensing: www.nachi.org/alberta.htm and grandfathered (smack in the law itself)… all of our CMIs.
Ontario is next.
One comment in the 259 made me laugh!
“PUT MIKE HOMES IN CHARGE”
Yes Nick I am just waiting for the s h i t to hit the fan!
Was “Bricker” the founder of this group
No! “Bricker” is Robert Young