Calling GFCI experts

Originally Posted By: Joey D’Adamo
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I live in an apartment and so I can’t really alter the wiring; well, its aluminum and I wouldn’t want to anyway.


Anyways... Its rather old and there's no outlet in the bathroom, so we have to run an extension cord from the hallway into the bathroom when using the hairdryer. But I worry a bit because this offers no GFCI protection.

So I was thinking of wiring a GFCI into this thing that I made for power tools in my old workshop:



It'll look ugly, but it oughta be safer... but will the GFCI actually work effectively this way? I can't imagine why it wouldn't, but I thought I would ask around first.

Its for temporary use only; it would be put away when not in use.


Originally Posted By: jpope
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Buy a hair dryer with built-in GFCI protection and use a standard extension cord. Replace the receptacle that the extension cord is plugged into, with a GFCI receptacle.


Start looking for a new home ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)


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Originally Posted By: phinsperger
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Joey,


A GFI will "protect" from the GFI itself to the end use. In this case the hair dryer cord, and hair dryer itself. The extension cord would not be GFI protected in your arrangement. If the box on the end of the home made cord were accidentally dropped in a sink/tub of water, the GFI would probably trip but there may still be current in the sink from the connection made at the GFI from the extension cord.

You would be better off having the GFI installed at the receptacle in the hallway or using an extention cord wih a built in GFI. Note that the GFI itself is at the plug end which would be in your hallway. This will protect cord running into the bathroom, the connection between the extention cord and the hair dryer, the hair dryer cord and the hair dryer itself.

![](upload://zXPAsIZyDxuclwz7kCS5RoXMxwx.jpeg)


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Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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The standard GFCI receptacle device is not listed for portable cordsets. Shock and general abuse may kill it. The idea of putting a GFCI in the receptacle box you feed this from is OK or you can buy a cord with a GFCI in it that is rated for that kind of service.


Originally Posted By: Joey D’Adamo
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Thanks everyone… I’ll just find one of them extension cords with the GFCI built in. Good point, Greg, I didn’t even think about the fact that the GFCI would probably be damaged if it got dropped from enough distance…


I can't really change the outlet out since my lease says I'm not supposed to do any wiring changes, plus the wires are aluminum and the only way to connect one would be with Ideal 65's which seem to have mixed reviews...


Originally Posted By: James D Mosier
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Your lease says you’re not supposed to do any wiring changes.


They probably don't want anyone to find decent wiring to compare the rest to.


--
Jim Mosier

Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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Joey:


That's good because the cord you made is illegal. The box was not designed to be used for that purpose, and the cord cap is not dead front.

The NEC permits:

"Flexible cord used in listed extension cord sets, or in extension cords made with separately listed and installed components, are permitted to be supplied by a branch circuit of Article 210 in accordance with the following:
20-ampere circuits ? 16 AWG and larger."


--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Wow Joe, you crack on everything us old carpenters have ever done. We used to have several of those on every job site, only ours had four receptacles. We ran them from the generator or the house next door if it had power so all of our saws would work.


Man, glad you weren't on the job with us ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif) ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif) ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif) ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)


Originally Posted By: phinsperger
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Joe,


If you only knew how many home made extention cords like that there are in shops and farm you would probablly have a heart attack.

Also if you look closely at the photo, there is a spot in the loop where the outer insulation is damaged. ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)


--
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Paul Hinsperger
Hinsperger Inspection Services
Chairman - NACHI Awards Committee
Place your Award Nominations
here !

Originally Posted By: Joey D’Adamo
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Ok… the first thing I did when I read Joe’s post is get out my copy of the CEC (1998 Edition; it’s all I have at the moment)… (CEC = Canadian Electrical Code… I’m from Canada)


Under 4-010 Subrule 5 it says "Where a flexible cord is used as an extension cord or to plug into an appliance or other device, no live parts shall be exposed hwen one end is connected to a source of supply and the other end is free."

Subrule 3 indicates that "flexible cord shall not be used as a substitute for the fixed wiring of structures", elaborating further indicating that they may not be permanently fastened or run through walls, windows, doors, etc.

So I think it's fine, especially since its just for temporary use and not a permanent part of the structure. I'm still not going to put a GFCI there just because it will probably get damaged if it was dropped.

As for the damaged insulation, the cable itself is pretty old; I think its made out of rubber or something similar to that--it's definately not thermoplastic insulation.


Originally Posted By: Joey D’Adamo
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James D Mosier wrote:
Your lease says you're not supposed to do any wiring changes.

They probably don't want anyone to find decent wiring to compare the rest to.

(OneBadBug on the Vortex)


LOL ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif) I just find it so hard to believe this building has had a constant stream of maintenance people over a period of so many years and none of them seemed to know a thing about handling aluminum wiring... it just boggles my mind.


Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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icon_rolleyes.gif


I am sorry that my post was not taken seriously! I was calling attention to a very real problem in the industry, where there have been accidents caused by the type of extension cord discussed here, and one made without any concern for safety for those who would use it.

Sure, the comments about the fact that they are common in the structural trades area, is just because of ignorance.

I found this information and offer it for review:

http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/pages/h00010.asp

Joey, I hope you don't get hurt and maybe you should look for a better place to live. The pictures you posted are typical of those found in areas around parts of the country where some buildings are fire traps!


--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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Actually article 527 pretty much lets construction folks get away with murder in temporary wiring. You can string up Romex just about anywhere, make splices without boxes and you can even string around THHN in some cases. I doubt these extension cords are the biggest problem.


Originally Posted By: James D Mosier
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I currently work in a factory.


OSHA came in a couple of years ago and decided that any "homemade" 120 volt extension cords were unsafe and not to be used.

This included the ones that utilized the "correct" ends designed for this purpose(the rubber or plastic ends with the cord clamp). Only the manufactured cords where the ends are molded to the cord are acceptable.

All of our homemade 440 volt cords are not an issue ![icon_rolleyes.gif](upload://iqxt7ABYC2TEBomNkCmZARIrQr6.gif) and still in use.


--
Jim Mosier

Originally Posted By: John Steinke
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Handy-box extension cords are a sore spot for Joe, in part because he has seen so many that became unsafe after abuse, lack of maintenance, and imprpper construction. A visit to his web site is an eye-opener!


I'm not as adamant as Joe, however. Here are a few of my thoughts:
-OSHA doesn't have jurisdiction over homes, and their desire to see you use a "Bell" box with outdoor cover, while a better design, doesn't justify their applying "pendant" standards to these cords (IMO);
-A "dead front" plug design is not only neater (nothing to fall off), but the strain relief of the cord is far better. "Strain relief" is what keeps those little tugs and pulls a cord receives from being transmitted to the point where the wires connect to the plug;
-The cord pictured appears to use a connector intended for MC cable, rather than one listed for use with flexible cords., where the cord enters the box. In line with my comments about strain relief, this is another place where it is critical that the cord be properly attached;
-The wire appears too light to adequately supply the amount of power a hair dryer uses- get a heavier cord (at least #14);

-Considering the addition of a GFCI, I agree that a GFCI plug is a better solution. I also doubt that there is room in a "handy box" for a GFCI receptacle, the cable strain relief, and the mounting screws!

This work is too neat- was this post just a test? I doubt that this cord was ever used.
I also find it hard to believe that there are NO receptacles in the bath- usually the light has one. If the place is truly that small, perhaps you'ld be better off drying your hair in the bedroom?


Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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John:


Thanks for stopping by! ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)

Your comments are refreshing!

There can always be personal opinions, as in the few above yours John, but yours makes the most sense, and should be a reminder that any alterations, as suggested of electrical equipment is not the best or safest solution.

You are correct, I have seen many bad and dangerous cords, and if necessary, can show where many poor souls are now pushing daisies because of them.

PS: I would be willing to bet that the cord above is without the EGC attached to the box!!


--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm

Originally Posted By: Joey D’Adamo
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jtedesco wrote:
PS: I would be willing to bet that the cord above is without the EGC attached to the box!!


Nah




Originally Posted By: Joey D’Adamo
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John Steinke wrote:
I doubt that this cord was ever used.


I replaced the outlet, box, and cover about 6 months ago. Here is the old Pass & Seymour outlet that was in there. I have pictures of the old box and cover if you want them... it just didn't seem to relevant to mention that in my original post.

Here's the old P&S that this thing had...


Quote:
I also find it hard to believe that there are NO receptacles in the bath- usually the light has one.


There is one on the fixture, but it is rated MAX 25 VA which is hardly suitable for a hairdryer.


Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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Good point. The outlet in the light fixture was designed for an electric razor and it uses the 18ga fixture wire. It is hardly adequate for a 1200-1300w hair dryer (that “1800” number on the barrel is as hokey as the number on air compressors).


Originally Posted By: Joey D’Adamo
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Greg Fretwell wrote:
Good point. The outlet in the light fixture was designed for an electric razor and it uses the 18ga fixture wire. It is hardly adequate for a 1200-1300w hair dryer (that "1800" number on the barrel is as hokey as the number on air compressors).


Of course the hairdryer still has 18AWG cable on it, but at least its not stuck behind a fixture in an electrical box with no room to dissipate heat.

Although my vacuum has 18 AWG cord too... and that cord gets really warm if i've been vacuuming for a while!