Recently completed an inspection on a 1967 home. I marked down the withing on the 4 point to the range as a form of cloth wiring. It is multistrand aluminum. The insurance company came back and said no to the client because of it being “cloth wiring”. It looks like a form of cloth wiring to me. I am not sure what the current owners have on their reports. The condition of it isn’t great, that was mentioned on the the report. Would like other opinions and insights.
Thank you
1967 home? Usually before the 60’s would be true cloth wiring.
Flagging wiring on a 4-point inspection as “cloth wiring” for a 1967 home can cause significant insurance complications, as it is often confused with older hazardous materials.
Try to verify if the wires are truly old cloth-insulated wiring or simply modern Romex wrapped in a fabric jacket, like this
You’re incorrect in calling it aluminum because it is not. What’s shown in the photo is tinned copper conductors. What is your definition of cloth wiring?
Thank you Mark. I was putting down Cloth Jacket Rubber Insulated on the 4 point. I didn’t see any tinned line copper which is pretty east to see, just looked very frade to me. There have been alot of renovations on the property. Here’s another pic. The panel was updated in the early 2000’s.
Thank you Robert. There any a few choices on the 4 point. I have only seen knob and tube cloth wiring a couple of times, pretty rare for me to see. There is an option to chose cloth covered rubber jacket on there as well.
I know that in certain places cloth wiring is a standard term but IMO it’s too generic to give you any valuble insight as to what the conductors and insulation are made of. The photo appears to show copper conductors with rubber insulation.
i know you’re an electrician and know all sorts of things i will never have any way to find out, but how on earth is that very first picture of what appears to be two wires with cloth covering the conductors not a cloth covered wire? even if it is cloth covering rubber, as an inspector who does not know electiricity was well as you, how would i determine that in a non-invasive inspection without hurting myself or doing damage to the equipment? i mean there is no question in my mind from the picture (granted i was not on site and actually looking closer at it may help) that is it cloth covering the conductor since it is frayed and you can clearly see it is cloth. i’ve been wrong before, a lot actually, and would like to correct this shortcoming before i run into it.
The naming convention aside, once an underwriter sees that picture, it’s “cloth wiring” on their system.
Who said it wasn’t cloth wiring? I said it wasn’t aluminum as mentioned in the OP. I also asked what is the definition of cloth wiring. From what I’ve read here on this forum a 4 point calls this cloth wiring.
In order to correct your shortcomings, you need to realize that there is no such thing as “cloth covered wire” or “cloth covered conductors”. Cloth would make for a very poor insulator. There has always been a type of rubber or plastic insulation on the conductors and then covered in a cloth jacket to prevent damage to the insulated conductors. “Cloth Wiring” is an even bigger misnomer since there is in fact, no such thing.
Nice post. I know that for some reason the insurance industry has adopted this concept of calling certain old types of wire cloth wiring or even cloth insulated. IMO the 4 point should give you the definition of what cloth wiring is. I’ve seen old NM cable with copper thermoplastic insulated conductors being called cloth wiring. I don’t think that is what they mean by cloth wiring.
It would be better if the insurance industry used real world terminology to describe what they want called out in the 4 point.
If my prior post was confusing i apologize.
that is one thing from school i actually remembered since in the '80s it was still common for electricians to run into it more often. they told us it was fine until we moved it so if we saw it on a job to either leave it alone or take it all all the way out. the other option was to leave it in place and put new wire down. but that was from vocational class decades ago. as an aside, the cloth does cover the conductors, it just doesn’t touch the conductors. and if i recall correctly, the tinning was for the rubber, not the copper. the copper does just fine without being tinned but the rubber didn’t like the copper for some reason. i forgot why though.
