Did a 4 point inspection in Fl. Has thermoplastic insulated wire with fabric outter wrap. I know this is not true cloth wiring. But as far as the 4 point inspection. I’ve been told insurance company consider that cloth wiring. Then other times I’ve been told they don’t label that as cloth wiring.
Any input on whether or not I should check box for cloth wiring or not. Home built in 1961.
Been doing this for years but I get different feed back each time I come across this.
Thanks
IMO… it is cloth sheathing for abrasion protection, NOT insulative properties, thus a non-issue even worth mentioning.
Yeah that’s what I figured. These insurance companies for Fl. Just have different views by the underwriter each time I come across this.
I’m going to not label Box for cloth wiring. And let underwriter decide when they review photos.
Thanks for the quick reply.
I do not label that as cloth wiring. Only if I see actual cloth insulation, which is pretty rare.
Yep! Agree.
What is the actual insurance company definition of cloth wiring?
That’s the problem… nobody really knows. The 4 point report is too vague, and very confusing for every new inspector. For electric, you checkmark cloth wiring, copper or aluminum, and then certain panel hazards (double taps, scorching, etc)
I have asked several electricians, and they don’t report the thermoplastic insulation either
Typically, the data entry folks see some kind of fabric or textile outer wrap in your photos, and sound the alarm bell.
Then you’re getting an email or phone call…
I don’t know how they expect an HI to know what “cloth wiring” is when they don’t tell you what their definition of cloth wiring is. If I had to guess I think that they mean rubber insulated, tin coated copper conductors with a braided cloth like jacket that designates the color. Thermoplastic is not tin coated copper or rubber insulated.
I don’t give them a closeup of the wiring.
Correct. I forgot to mention earlier that is what I typically call out as cloth. Especially if it is brittle and falling apart like this. (Hot conductor is exposed halfway down)
This one was a home I did last week. It was a 100 yr old doozy
You can’t obscure it if is visible in the panel. They know how to “zoom” in, it appears…
They really have no choice. It is a requirement of the 4-Point. I’ve tried for years to get a definitive answer from Citizens of what they consider to be cloth wiring. I tell my WindSurance customers to check the box for anything with a woven sheath as cloth to be safe. They should check the box, but they can add a comment under “General condition of the electrical system” explaining that only the outer sheath is cloth. If the inspector is using WindSurance, he can also include a photo and an explanation.
The problem for inspectors is that Citizens has never provided a definition, so individual insurance companies are left to do their own interpretation. To further complicate things, the people who review the 4-Point reports are usually not technical people. I’ve had this discussion with many inspectors and insurance company representatives. The only safe thing for an inspector to do to protect himself is to check the box.
Another even more confusing and controversial part of the 4-Point is the question “Is amperage sufficient for current usage?” That was added in the 2018 update. It causes a lot of stress for some home inspectors because they don’t do demand load calculations, but the question is not optional. They have to answer it.
