Condensate drain line

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1

Originally Posted By: dnewby
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Hello All,


I did an inspection about 6 weeks ago. I got a call from the lady and she said her roof was leaking. I went over to investigate and found the condensate drain line from her AC in the attic was sweating and had put a water stain on her interior ceiling. The Temp. has been in the upper 90ies. I did not go to the thermostat to see where she had the temp. set.


I told the lady that this condensate drain line should be insulated to prevent the sweating and I went and bought some insulation and insulated the condensate drain line.

A week latter she called and said her ceiling stain has crumbled and wants me to go back and replace the stained area. ......ARUGH

In the first place when we do and inspection we are only there for about 2 to 3 hours, and the AC has not been running. In the second place I did not miss the ceiling stain because it was not there when I did the inspection. The house had been freshly painted.

Question. Are condensate drain lines from an AC insulated?

How can I get this woman to go away?

Donna Newby

2

Originally Posted By: jpope
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dnewby wrote:
Question. Are condensate drain lines from an AC insulated?


No.

dnewby wrote:
How can I get this woman to go away?


You have implied that this is your responsibility by performing unnecessary repairs.

Hire a contractor to finish the work properly and write it off as a lesson learned.

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
3

Originally Posted By: rwashington
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In Texas, the licensing commission could come after an inspector for doing repairs on a home that he/she inspected. Is it different in Miss.? icon_eek.gif

–
Richard W Washington


www.rwhomeinspections.com

4

Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
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While I’ve never seen a condensate drain line insulated in an attic, in point of fact, some manufacturer’s installation instructions call for condensate drain lines to be insulated where they may condense on the outside and cause dripping and damage to the structure.


For instance, an AC installed in a closet on the second floor of a house with the condensate line running thru the 2nd floor floor/1st floor ceiling to the exterior wall, down inside the exterior wall to it's termination point outside the house.

On a pre-drywall, builder told me I was full of it until I showed him the manufacturer's instructions, but he chose not to do it anyway and rocked the ceiling. A few weeks later, he returned to the house to remove the wet crumbled sheetrock, insulate the line and repair the sheetrock.

Next one was already insulated when I got there for the pre-drywall.

--
Erby Crofutt
B4U Close Home Inspections
Georgetown, Kentucky
www.b4uclose.com

5

Originally Posted By: lgoodman
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I don’t think it is unethical to perform work if there is no pay involved.

6

Originally Posted By: dnewby
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I missed a toilet tank leak and went back and fixed the leak. I was not paid I did not know that it was wrong to fix a problem that I missed in an inspection. Are y’all saying that I have to hire a contractor every time a client has a complaint? I need to know.


Thanks


Donna Newby

7

Originally Posted By: jpope
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dnewby wrote:
Are y'all saying that I have to hire a contractor every time a client has a complaint? I need to know.


If you hadn't missed the condition (leaking toilet), what would you have recommended? Most likely, repairs by a contractor.

Every time that toilet leaks and every time the condensate line stains the ceiling, they will be calling the person who fixed it.

You should not be performing repairs or corrections on properties that you inspect whether you are paid or not.

Inspectors are human, we will miss things. Next time, reinspect the item and recommend the appropriate professional to repair it. Who's to say the toilet didn't start leaking after you inspected it?

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
8

Originally Posted By: bkelly2
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Good point Jeff, I have broken two attic hatches getting my heavy self into the attic. Broke the trim. Paid a handyman once and fixed one myself once. The handy man was chaeper icon_lol.gif

–
“I used to be disgusted, Now I try to Be amused”-Elvis Costello

9

Originally Posted By: rwashington
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According to the NACHI S.O.P


Exclusions 3.2 Section III, subsection L. An inspector shall not offer or perform any trade or professional service other than home inspection.


Seems like r ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif) epairing the leak would fall into that category.

--
Richard W Washington
www.rwhomeinspections.com

10

Originally Posted By: lgoodman
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Are we in violation of 3.2;III;L if we offer radon testing?


According to 3.2;I;K presence of airborn hazards is not part of an inspection: N. air quality is not part of inspection: P environmental hazards not part of inspection. Then radon testing is a trade other than home inspection.

Code of ethics; section1 paragraph 11 says not to perform repairs FOR AN EXTRA FEE for one year after inspection so we know Donna is not unethical.

On further reading 3.2;III;L says we are not required to perform other services not that we are forebidden from performing. I think Donna has done nothing wrong with our association rules. I don't know about the Texas law.

11

Originally Posted By: mboyett
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Re: Texas rules see: http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/viewtopic.php?t=14907&highlight=

–
Mike Boyett


Capital City Inspections


Austin, Tx


www.capcityinspections.com

12

Originally Posted By: jpope
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It’s not even about ethics or the NACHI SOP, it’s about bad business, plain and simple.


Once you've made a repair, you've crossed the line from HI to contractor. Your E&O and/or liability insurance will not cover you for repairs.

What happens when that toilet you fixed, starts to leak again? Let's say it's a second floor bathroom toilet and the family is on vacation. Are you going to repair the damaged substructure and replace personal belongings that were destroyed in a flood?

If you were a licensed and insured contractor, you would be covered even if the leak had nothing to do with the previous repair.

Don't be so quick to try and make a problem just "go away." Not all fires can be put out with water - think it through.

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

13

Originally Posted By: pdacey
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jpope wrote:
dnewby wrote:
Question. Are condensate drain lines from an AC insulated?


No.



They are around here. I always write it up as in need of repair when they are not.

It is very common on new construction that the drain line will be insulated in the attic but not the length that will be iside the wall cavity. I always tell the client they should ask the HVAC contractor to insulate the portion in the wall. If he won't, then they should go buy some insulation on their own and do it before the drywall goes up.

There have been mold cases associated with uninsulated drainlines inside the wall cavity.

--
Slainte!

Patrick Dacey
swi@satx.rr.com
TREC # 6636
www.southwestinspections.com
14

Originally Posted By: jpope
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pdacey wrote:
They are around here. I always write it up as in need of repair when they are not.


I've never seen it even on new construction, however, I will concede and say that it may be necessary in some jurisdictions.

That doesn't change the fact that the home inspector should not be the person installing it.

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
15

Originally Posted By: lgoodman
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I stand by my opinion that Donna did nothing illegal or unethical but I am convinced by Jeff’s posting that she should not have performed the repair, as a practical matter, because of her liability if the repair is inadequate.

16

Originally Posted By: pdacey
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jpope wrote:
That doesn't change the fact that the home inspector should not be the person installing it.



I agree. I won't even repair something that just may be a turn of a screw. I leave it the way I found it.

--
Slainte!

Patrick Dacey
swi@satx.rr.com
TREC # 6636
www.southwestinspections.com
17

Originally Posted By: dedwards
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Jeff is dead on right about making repairs to a home you have inspected. Once you cross the line of inspector to repairman you just made yourself for ANY future problems that may come up on that item whether you caused it or not. The last person to touch it was you according to the owner. They may attempt to fix something later on and cause the problem but is very likely to blame the inspector to shift the responsibility. Don’t tell me you have never seen this! I never make repairs, light pilot lights, or anything else that can come back to me. I lost a regular customer (investor) because I would not jump the controls on a broken thermostat. Oh well, too bad for him.


In our part of the country, codensate lines in the attic are very often insulated due to the extreme humidity here. Second thoughts on this is, the water in the condensate line should not be in the line long enough to cause condensation on the outside. There may be a slight blockage causing the cold water inside to accumulate thereby sweating on the outside surface. Check the terminal end of the pipe to see if it is running freely.

18

Originally Posted By: rwashington
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It may not be outright unethical to be making repairs but it does cross a line that an inspector should not cross. An inspector could bias a report to create repairs and if the same inspector is doing the repairs then…well you get my drift…Just would not go there for this reason and the other reasons stated before.


I do agree though that the NACHI SOP does make a conflicting arguement with radon testing and not performing another professional service. icon_rolleyes.gif

–
Richard W Washington


www.rwhomeinspections.com

19

Originally Posted By: jpope
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rwashington wrote:
According to the NACHI S.O.P
Exclusions 3.2 Section III, subsection L. An inspector shall not offer or perform any trade or professional service other than home inspection.


Radon testing, mold sampling, water purification tests and these types of ancillary services are all "inspection related" items - testing, sampling, inspection of systems/components for defects and/or deficiencies that would otherwise be unknown.

This section refers to abatement, remediation, repairs, corrections, etc.

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
20

Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
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Jeff, your reference makes it appear that the SOP prohibits it. It doesn’t. It lists it as a non-requirement.



To put it more in context, here are the exact sections as just copied from the NACHI SOP link at left.


3. Limitations, Exceptions & Exclusions

3.2. Exclusions:

III. The inspectors are not required to:



L. Offer or perform any trade or professional service other than home inspection.




Perhaps you meant to refer to the Code of Ethics:


Code of Ethics

Duty to the Public



The NACHI inspector shall not perform or offer to perform, for an additional fee, any repairs or associated services to structure on which the inspector or inspector’s company has prepared a home inspection report, for a period of 12 months. This provision shall not include services to components and/or systems which are not included in the NACHI standards of practice.



Donna's fixing of an item, at no charge, that she missed on the inspection, does not appear, to me, to violate either the Standards of Practice or the Code of Ethics.

It may not be very smart, but that's another story. The one time it happened to me (toe thru sheetrock ceiling), I hired someone recommended by the seller's real estate agent, with the seller's OK, to repair it. I'd already POd the seller by putting a hole in her ceiling. I didn't want to have to come back and see her again and again while fixing the ceiling. Paid off. I've gotten referrals from the seller and one from the seller's agent. More than made up the cost of the repair.




Radon, mold, septic, pest, etc, inspections/testing are completely separate from a home inspection. NACHI / ASHI / NAHI, etc have no right, obligation, or duty to restrict, regulate, or otherwise interfere with those trades including whether they do testing / mitigation; or inspection & repairs / treatments

On the other hand, repairs (for a fee) to items that are a part of the home inspection have been found to be unethical by the national associations and are also prohibited under some state laws.

Note though that most state laws and association SOP & COE stuff does not prohibit us making the repairs to stuff we screwed up or missed.

In Texas, the law seems to prohibit an inspector from making ANY repairs, including to those things that they screwed up. It doesn't say anything about "for a fee".




OCCUPATIONS CODE

CHAPTER 1102. REAL ESTATE INSPECTORS

SUBCHAPTER G. PROHIBITED ACTS

? 1102.304. REPAIRS AND MAINTENANCE. An inspector may
not perform or agree to perform repairs or maintenance in
connection with a real estate inspection under an earnest money
contract, lease, or exchange of real property.



Added by Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 1421, ? 2, eff. June 1, 2003.



Seems fairly cut and dried. Though I'm not in Texas and perhaps somebody that has to operate under the rules there has a better understanding of the issues.

--
Erby Crofutt
B4U Close Home Inspections
Georgetown, Kentucky
www.b4uclose.com