Deck problem(s)

Originally Posted By: jremas
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I see 2 items right off the bat and a possible third.









Jeff Remas
REMAS Inspections, Inc.
Northeastern PA & the Poconos
www.NEPAinspector.com

570-362-1598

Originally Posted By: rmagee
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It looks like the builder failed to install the joist hangers correctly. The bottom of the joists should contact or rest on the bottom of the hangers, the builder elected not to use all the available nail holes in the hangers (The pre-punched holes are there for a reason) and no evidence of flashing.


I often explain to my clients that an improperly installed deck has the potential to provide some real excitement during their traditional house warming party. Nothing tests the strength of a deck like sixty alcohol fueled adults dancing up a storm.


--
Rick Magee
Building Check Ltd.
Fredericton, N.B. Canada
1-506-454-3332
bcheck@nbnet.nb.ca
"check with a professional"

Originally Posted By: jremas
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Thanks Rick, easy one huh?






Jeff Remas
REMAS Inspections, Inc.
Northeastern PA & the Poconos
www.NEPAinspector.com

570-362-1598

Originally Posted By: kwilliams
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in the upper right, is that not a board hanging,


looks like light shinning thru,


not ending in middle of joist icon_question.gif



Member - MAB


http://www.nachi.org/convention2006.htm

Originally Posted By: dbush
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Jeff, what are those big things in the middle between the joists. They sure look like some funny 16 penny nails, oh wait, I have heard that people actually DO use lag bolts to attach decks to a house, I’m just not sure I have ever seen one. icon_biggrin.gif icon_biggrin.gif icon_biggrin.gif



Dave Bush


MAB Member


"LIFE'S TOUGH, WEAR A HELMET"

Originally Posted By: rmoore
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Hate to criticize someone who has actually used lag bolts but…


The one in the picture looks kind of small. They should be at least 3/8" if not 1/2". Also I would prefer to see the ledger bolted using a staggered hi-lo sequence rather than just the middle to prevent cupping. Double bolts at the ends.

Hard to tell from the photo but the gap between the deck boards looks either tight or clogged.

Plus the other stuff...

What's the thought on cedar shims to "fix" the hanger situation?


--
Richard Moore
Rest Assured Inspection Services
Seattle, WA
www.rainspect.com

Originally Posted By: rcloyd
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If the brick on this house is a veneer, you should never anchor to the veneer. The IRC requires that brick veneer can only support its own weight nothing else including a deck.


The hangers are wrong for three reasons: 1) the gap at the bottoms. 2) hanger holes with no nails in them (they don't put extra holes in hangers, they should all have nails.)
3) The nail heads look like common 8d or 10d nails and should be joist hanger nails suited for the extra shear forces created by hanging the joist.

The bolts appear to be less than 5/8" DIA. and should be installed in a staggered pattern.

Those are the deficiencies I see.

Regards,


--
Russell G. Cloyd
Intra-Spec Home Inspections
& Code Consulting, LLC
859-586-4591
www.intra-spechomeinspections.com

Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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Hi Jeff,


I keep looking at that photo, and on top of the other stuff that my esteemed fellow members have spotted. I keep wondering what the deck is actually bolted to ?? The ledger board appears to be mounted very high in relation to where the rim joist should be, am I not seeing this correctly ?? ![icon_confused.gif](upload://qv5zppiN69qCk2Y6JzaFYhrff8S.gif) ![icon_confused.gif](upload://qv5zppiN69qCk2Y6JzaFYhrff8S.gif)

Regards

Gerry


--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466

Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com

"Education is a journey, not a destination"

Originally Posted By: dvalley
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David Valley


MAB Member


Massachusetts Certified Home Inspections
http://www.masscertified.com

"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go."

Originally Posted By: rcloyd
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Gerry:


It is very likely that the only thing the deck is bolted to is the brick veneer.
In my neck of the woods one of the most common (and incorrect) ways a deck is fastened to the house is with expansion sleeve anchors. As you may know, to install these you first drill a hole in the material such as brick the same diameter as the anchor then pound the anchor in with a hammer and tighten the nut. The bolt then expands the sleeve in the brick for anchoring strength. This type of installation is wrong for two reasons:

1) Deck weight should not be supported by masonry veneer.

2) The expanding bolts can crack the brick or mortar joint.

Oh yeah, one more thing. be careful when looking at the diameter of a sleeve anchor. The diameter given on the box is the diameter of the hole
required for installation not the diameter of the actual bolt within the sleeve. For example: a 1/2" DIA sleeve anchor has only a 3/8" diameter
bolt inside.


--
Russell G. Cloyd
Intra-Spec Home Inspections
& Code Consulting, LLC
859-586-4591
www.intra-spechomeinspections.com

Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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hi to all,


Russell, are we looking at the same picture, as you mentioned brick veneer in your posts and I'm looking at T111 ??? ![icon_confused.gif](upload://qv5zppiN69qCk2Y6JzaFYhrff8S.gif)

regards

Gerry


--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466

Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com

"Education is a journey, not a destination"

Originally Posted By: rcloyd
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Gerry:


I think you are correct. The photo looked alot like brick to me. But does appear to be wood. I don't see too many homes with wood siding around here. Mostly brick in new construction.

My mistake. ![icon_redface.gif](upload://f7DX2EWhmUfsDapWaYT3oJHMCj1.gif)


--
Russell G. Cloyd
Intra-Spec Home Inspections
& Code Consulting, LLC
859-586-4591
www.intra-spechomeinspections.com

Originally Posted By: jmyers
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You people are way too picky. There ain’t nothin’ wrong with that picture, or the deck! icon_biggrin.gif


Joe Myers


Originally Posted By: jremas
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Hey Joe, I can a$%-u-me that the smile at the end of your comment means that you are kidding,…right?






Jeff Remas
REMAS Inspections, Inc.
Northeastern PA & the Poconos
www.NEPAinspector.com

570-362-1598

Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
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I can see a need for some inspectors to take the free training mentioned in this post.


http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/viewtopic.php?t=1955

There are, in fact, extra holes in hangers that are NOT meant to be used under certain conditions and can NOT be used under certain conditions.

You should learn what those conditions are before critiquing hangers that do not have all the holes filled.

Learn. Takes about an hour to complete the training after you get the CD.


--
Erby Crofutt
B4U Close Home Inspections
Georgetown, Kentucky

www.b4uclose.com

Originally Posted By: rcloyd
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Erby:


You are assuming that the joist hanger in the picture is a Simpson product.
There are quite a few manufacturer's of hangers out there. many of which
(including Simpson products) require fasteners in each of the holes provided for fastening to the header. If these hangers are Simpson brand ICC NER-5656 indicates that all the holes in this application would be filled.

Regards,


--
Russell G. Cloyd
Intra-Spec Home Inspections
& Code Consulting, LLC
859-586-4591
www.intra-spechomeinspections.com

Originally Posted By: ekartal
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Erby,


Your post contains a link to the Simpson web site. In what situation or circumstance would all the nails not be required for this manufacturer?

Erol Kartal
ProInspect


Originally Posted By: dvalley
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Erby,


Excellent site! It?s very educational.

I browsed this site and could only come up with two reasons why any given holes on these connectors do not need nailing. One reason would be, when welding Simpson ties to metal beams; it would cancel any top and face nailing requirements.
![](upload://zDHj2Xg0Q96u2KJ0hGAGenSOFBI.jpeg)

The other would be when the given hole is centered on an I-joist web. you obviously wouldn't nail into a web.


Other than that, all connectors for wood to wood connections would require all manufactured holes to be used by installing the appropriate nails at these locations.


--
David Valley
MAB Member

Massachusetts Certified Home Inspections
http://www.masscertified.com

"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go."

Originally Posted By: jpeck
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Depending on the hanger.


If you work your way through those listings, you will find load tables, and at the bottom of the load tables are some notes.

This was a note 4. MIN nailing quantity and load values-fill all round holes; MAX nailing quantity and load values-fill all round and triangle holes.

Now, what if you did not need even the "MIN nailing quantity and load values"? You would not even need all the round holes filled. You may only need two nails, or four nails, for the load in the use as it was designed.

What if the design load exceeded the minimum design load of that hanger (with all round holes filled), but did not meet the maximum design load of that hanger (with all triangle holes filled also)? Then, you might need all round holes filled, and only some triangle holes filled.

How do you know, how can you tell? Without the benefit of having the engineering drawings there showing the required nailing schedule for the design load (architect or engineers design load, not Simpson's design load), you have no way of knowing.

Simpson is only stating what is required to meet the minimum rated design value of that hanger, and what is required to meet the maximum rated design value of that hanger.

Okay. How many holes need to be filled?

A) All of them.

B) All round holes.

C) All triangle holes.

D) Can't tell without the engineering nailing schedule.

D) is the correct answer.


--
Jerry Peck
South Florida

Originally Posted By: dvalley
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Damn, Where did I put that engineering nailing schedule?


Ahh, I'll think I'll just fill all the holes. No one will ever know.


--
David Valley
MAB Member

Massachusetts Certified Home Inspections
http://www.masscertified.com

"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go."