No deck ledger. What exactly is the defect?

If the hangers are nailed through wood siding into a rim joist… seems like the fastener anchoring is adequate. What exactly is the defect?

No Flashing? I’m still researching.

Found this:

From here: https://www.bestdecksite.com/introLedgerPg1.htm

It doesn’t interrupt the siding, so no need for flashing. I’m not sure there is a defect.

I thought it was trick question :stuck_out_tongue: Door frame doesn’t cap flashing.

http://www.homeprochesapeake.com/Deckcollapse.jpg

I’ll bite. Shear effect of the nails for one. You have at least an inch before the hanger nails hit a structural member.

[8UOTE=labstein;1383577]I’ll bite. Shear effect of the nails for one. You have at least an inch before the hanger nails hit a structural member.
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Well, T-1-11 is usually 5/8". I think hanger nails are 1 1/4 ". I suppose the fasteners might be subject to withdrawal over time as thermal and moisture cycling enlarge the holes around the nails. That condition seems to be worse in laminated lumber like plywood than in solid lumber like ledger material.
T-1-11 is a laminated panel like plywood, which is considered a structural material, so I’m not sure that T-1-11 isn’t structural.

Should be at least a half inch wall sheathing behind there too

I don’t know what the fastener holding capacity of laminated wood panels is compared to lumber. I think withdrawal would be more of an issue than shear. Be a good question for the APA.

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=228642

I believe the T-1-11 would count as a shear wall

Go to page 10 Siding and flashing.

Well, T-1-11 is usually 5/8". I think hanger nails are 1 1/4 ". I suppose the fasteners might be subject to withdrawal over time as thermal and moisture cycling enlarge the holes around the nails. That condition seems to be worse in laminated lumber like plywood than in solid lumber like ledger material.
T-1-11 is a laminated panel like plywood, which is considered a structural material, so I’m not sure that T-1-11 isn’t structural.
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Maybe I should of said, you cannot attach the ledgerboard to ANYTHING but structural grade boards.

Where positive connection not verifiable during construction,
decks must be self-supporting _______________________________ [502.2.2]
Deck ledger attachment with min ½ in. lag screws or bolts T24 _ [502.2.2.1]
52
Lag screws & bolts hot-dipped galvanized or stainless steel ______[502.2.2.1]
Lag screws & bolts req washers F43 _________________________[502.2.2.1]
Lag screws & bolts 2 in. from top & bottom, staggered ________ [502.2.2.1.1]
Alternative connections to accepted engineering practice: girders
not on ledgers & ledgers not supported on masonry veneer ______[502.2.2.2]
Lateral connection can be done with horizontal hold-downs ____ [502.2.2.3]

The house joist was not designed for deck attachment.

Flashings 09 IRC
• Where porches, decks, or stairs attach to a wood-framed wall or floor.

Kenton,

The hanger nails, typically 16d, need full embedment length to develop the rated hanger capacity listed in the tables. Without a header the nail will protrude through a typical 2x rim joist, which reduces the embedment length of the nail.

Not to mention the water penetration at the nail locations you mention below.

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Unless the ceiling is at 7’ inside, there would be no rim joist to nail into for the hangers.
The hanger nails are typically 1"&1/4, so the only thing holding the framing is the T-111.

Kenton,

A typical Simpson Strong-Tie hanger for a 2x10 joist (LU210) requires 10-16d (3 1/2") nails to attach the hanger to the house and 6-10d (1-1/2") nails to connect the hanger to the joist.

That’s where a lot of carpenters and home inspectors get confused. Many think the 10d 1 1/2" are good for ALL holes in the joist hanger.

So you examined the rim joist thoroughly Kenton ?

Bingo! The door header is usually set at about 6’-10" and the bottoms of joists are about 3" above that so most nails are probably going to hit nothing but T-111 and maybe plywood wall sheathing.