You will NEVER see AL with ONLY a “cloth” insulation or sheathing!!
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Hi,
The 4-points inspection form states “Indicate presence of any of the following” and provide a checkbox list of various type of electric wirings (Cloth, active knob&tube, etc). The insurance policy underwriter are non-technical and certainly not an electrician. They based purely on the checkbox and if “cloth” is check → will be consider unacceptable and can’t bind the insurance policy without remediation. Just trying to understand how others interpret the form and fill out the electrical section of the 4-points for clients when there is visible cloth cover wiring seen. In my situation, both the exterior main and sub-panel look newly installed with permit and assumed city inspector inspected as well.
Based on your photos, I would not call it cloth.
So back to the original post, when doing a 4 point inspection with the check boxes how do you identify cloth wiring? The panel has only thermoplastic insulation on the conductors. Do you still check the box for cloth wiring?
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No, thats what I dont like about the form (again, too vague) The insurance is concerned about a hazard, which I would not consider the thermoplastic a hazard. I consider cloth the older style, with brittle rubber insulation, with cloth wrap over that… (those that have cloth on the sheathing, as well as cloth over the rubber)
I only do it that way because the first time I came across the cloth/fabric sheathing like in the OP photos, I called it out. So the insurance company then required an electrician to evaluate and determine if it was safe or not. The electrician called me and said that the home was fine, and not the dangerous type that the insurance companies are worried about.
If they would describe that in the 4 point form, it would solve a lot of confusion
Ok so here is the final answer to this question. I have done so many inspections in the Tampa Bay Area in the past year and came across this type of wiring question very often.
4 Point is important in Florida because that’s the inspection form your insurance of choice looks at. I have seen wiring dating back to the late 1800’s and today. I am not an electrician and I have unlimited respect to ones that break it down to a science backed up with experience and I know a few. I agree that the Citizens 4 Point form is a mess but hey what government form isn’t ? It always has to have 2 to 100 different meanings and that’s why it’s government. When you can’t figure things out you just protect yourself by playing with words…riiiiiigh?
After numerous consultations with experienced electricians, insurance agents, underwriters the answer is the wire itself is covered in pvc rubber, and is actually “cloth jacketed wire”. In the truest sense of the word it is technically cloth covered, but the hazard of the older wiring is that the older rubber became brittle, whereas this wiring has more covering around it, which, to date, GENERALLY has not shown the degradation issues as with its predecessor.
So the answer is NO it is not cloth wiring that the form asks for. Now, here is the flip side. If this same wiring is not grounded in the panel and at the receptacle, switch or light or if it is damaged by rodents, deterioration, unstable voltage well then it’s an issue. A licensed electrician with a good standing reputation in business, will be able to determine this really easily. My good friend who is an insurance agent in Florida has shared a screenshot of the Citizens explanation of “Cloth” wiring that I attached here for everybody to see. Why should it be a secret, to make more money for the insurance companies and let them monopolize a market? If you need us to check for something you want to write the rules for then have your underwrites educate the ones checking for it. That’s why I say ASK, LEARN, SHARE it’s the only way.
To conclude, being a certified, state licensed home inspector is not just passing the tests and getting a license guarded by an insurance policy. It is about experience, not being afraid to ask around, building your network and most importantly SHARING YOUR KNOWLEDGE with others. Not everybody can pass for this career and the ones that are not willing to learn, ask and share will just end up with unsatisfied customers and lawsuits.
WHAT YOU MAY THINK IS CITIZENS DEFINITION OF CLOTH WIRING:
CITIZENS DEFINITION OF CLOTH WIRING:
