Electrical Panel

[gbell (Greg Bell, Sr CMI)]

One of the best installation jobs I have ever seen for the conductors in the panel.

[rmeier2 (Robert Meier)]

Gets a thumbs up for neatness but the NM cables entering in the two large squeeze connectors at the top is a violation.

[btoye (Bradley Toye, CMI)]

@gbell

One of the best installation jobs I have ever seen for the conductors in the panel.

I wonder what that installer’s sock drawer looks like.:mrgreen:

[jjonas (Jeffrey Jonas)]

@Robert_Meier

Gets a thumbs up for neatness but the NM cables entering in the two large squeeze connectors at the top is a violation.

Please elaborate on this, with any suggested wording. I came across this for the first time just yesterday. Thanks.

[Jim_Port]

Like RM said, those connectors are probably not listed for use that way which makes the installation a code violation.

You also have the issue of cables supporting other cables which is another violation and potential bundling issues.

[jjonas (Jeffrey Jonas)]

@Jim_Port

Like RM said, those connectors are probably not listed for use that way which makes the installation a code violation.

You also have the issue of cables supporting other cables which is another violation and potential bundling issues.

The bundling issue was my concern thus the reason for the pic. The connector(s) themselves I didn’t know about thus my query.

Thanks.

[rmeier2 (Robert Meier)]

The bundling might not be an issue depending on the overall length of the cables bundled together. Those connectors are not listed for multiple NM cables.

310.15(A)(2) Selection of Ampacity. Where more than one ampacity
applies for a given circuit length, the lowest value shall be
used.
Exception: Where two different ampacities apply to adjacent
portions of a circuit, the higher ampacity shall be permitted to
be used beyond the point of transition, a distance equal to 3.0
m (10 ft) or 10 percent of the circuit length figured at the
higher ampacity, whichever is less.

[Jim_Port]

Robert, I was thinking of the “bundled for 24” without maintaining spacing" portion.

[rmeier2 (Robert Meier)]

@Jim_Port

Robert, I was thinking of the “bundled for 24” without maintaining spacing" portion.

IMO there is bundling more than 24" but you may be able to apply the exception that I posted to allow the bundling and still not require derating.

[jjonas (Jeffrey Jonas)]

Thanks for the discussion guys. I didn’t measure the length, but it was damned near, or at, 20-24 inches bundled.

[Martin_Brooke]

Every time I see bends like that I cringe. They are very sharp IMO. Anyway, good points about the bundling but I see a 2 pole breaker at the bottom that looks like a Murray or Siemens in a GE panel which is a no-no.

[Jim_Port]

Robert, I had been taught that the section you posted was for when a cable passed through something like an attic with the higher ambient heat. Your thoughts?

[rmeier2 (Robert Meier)]

@Jim_Port

Robert, I had been taught that the section you posted was for when a cable passed through something like an attic with the higher ambient heat. Your thoughts?

You’re correct, it does apply as you’ve mentioned but it also applies anywhere that you would have two portions of a circuit with different ampacities due to the derating of one portion of the circuit, like bundling.

http://ecmweb.com/nec/808ecmCBfig3.jpg

**Bundling ** When conductors are bundled together, they lose some of their ability to dissipate heat. In the NEC, the allowable ampacity starts dropping when four or more current-carrying conductors are bundled together for more than 24 inches [310.15(B)(2)(a)] (Fig. 2).

Be aware that there are five exceptions described in 310.15(B)(2)(a), one of which is for AC or MC cable, which allows up to 20 current-carrying conductors in 12 AWG, 2 or 3 conductor cables without having to adjust the ampacity.
If the ambient temperature is anything but 86°F — and more than three current-carrying conductors are bundled together — adjust the ampacity (listed in Table 310.16) for both conditions.
To make that adjustment, multiply these three numbers together:

• Table 310.16 ampacity

• Temperature correction factor

• Bundling adjustment factor.

                        Always  remember that the higher insulation temperature rating of 90°C rated  conductors provides a greater conductor ampacity for use in ampacity  adjustment, even though you size those conductors based on the column  that corresponds to *the temperature listing of the terminals*  [110.14 (C)(1)]. When correcting or adjusting conductor ampacity, use  the temperature insulation rating of the conductor as listed in Table  310.16, not the temperature rating of the terminal [110.14(C)].
                         If  a single length of conductor has two ampacities, use the lower ampacity  for the entire circuit [310.15(A)(2)]. **An exception applies: If that  portion of the conductor with reduced ampacity is not longer than 10  feet and is not longer than 10% of the length of the part of the circuit  with the higher ampacity, then you can use the higher ampacity for the  entire circuit [310.15(A(2) Ex]. **
  

Full article:

Conductor Size Matters

[gbell (Greg Bell, Sr CMI)]

Just to clarify I was referring to the neatness as mentioned by another.

[gfricke (Glenn Fricke)]

That’ll learn ya Greg

[gbell (Greg Bell, Sr CMI)]

@gfricke

That’ll learn ya Greg

I learn something new all of the time. One of the great things about this profession.