Feedback: Clip? Strap?

Here are pictures of the roof truss attachments. I am wondering what to call it based on the form requirements. There were no nails visible but may be one on top of truss under the roof sheathing.

How old is the house? Just out of curiosity.

Built in 2002.

It may be one of the simpson things"I think" they are called but you would have to at least show how it was attached somewhere.

Camera on a pole and pole to move stuff if possible.

With the proof you show I do not think you can mark clip or wrap as you cannot prove it and likely did not see any proof.

Tough call because you cannot describe how and or if it is attached to anything.

Construction method looks odd for such a new house?

is it a wood frame house?

Do a search of this section for sanibel strap.

While you make a valid point with respect to this specific connector, I think you could carry it a step further and say the we, as inspectors doing a “visual” inspection, cannot verify that any of the multiple connectors used at roof to wall connections are mechanically attached to the wall as the bottom of the connector at the wall connection is almost always never visible. So- why is that we can say that a “Simpson H25” or similar clip that has at least 3 nails securing it to the truss is also connected to the wall properly if we cannot see the connection?

The strap in the picture above appears to be a “Sanibel” type strap. Typically, those types of straps are mechanically attached to the wall at each end of the strap and wrap over the top of the truss. Often times, there is no mechanical attachment to the truss. Opinions will vary from “state approved” trainers that this type of connector should be classified as a “double wrap” down to the opinion that it should be classified as “toe nail”. Underwriter “expert” opinions will also range from toe nail to double wrap.

I have attached the specs for the “Sanibel” wrap. I think you will see that the rated uplift for this strap typically exceeds the values for most all “clips”. With respect to completing the OIR B! 1802 when encountering this type of connector, I would suggest selecting “other” and attaching the Sanibel document to your report and let the “expert” underwriter make the decision as to what rating to give the roof to wall connection.

Thats what it is. I knew you had the info but thought you were at a race. How did it go?

Look out now.
I think Steve’s idea is excellent.
That is why we have this great forum :slight_smile: to help each other out.
That way also makes the underwriter make the decision which I always love. Not for the clients best interests but to make them underwriters make a decision once and a while.
I would rather be able to say and mark exactly what would give the customer a discount but if it were me I would do what Steve said.

We mark them as a double wrap. Mark “other” and it is unlikely they will receive any credit.

Thanks for the feedback.
I am going to mark it as a double strap and inform the client of why it should be marked. As long and I and (thanks!) John believe it should be that way, I will fill the stupid form out accordingly. “Other” does leave a way out for the insurance company.
Thanks again,

Totally agree with you. Per the uplift rating for the Sanibel strap and per most recognized “state approved” training, the Sanibel strap should be rated as a “double wrap.”. However, I have had direct conversations with the “head underwriter” for multiple carriers who have “their engineer” who has a different opinion regarding the Sanibel strap. As I have had more than one report questioned with Sanibel straps that I rated as “double wraps”, I am now marking “other” with the supporting documentation and deferring to the “qualified” underwriter for the final call on the rating- which they will do anyway.

I also think this scenario further warrants the need for the underwriters that our reviewing our work to be statutorily required to have the same training as the professional inspector doing the inspection.

John are your photos any better or are they similar?

I am curious as you have such a great number of inspections under your belt.

Their opinion is incorrect. Now they are arguing with the manufacturer.
If you have any questions Wayne, contact the manufacturer. The Simpson rep I have dealt with will give you all of the information you can want.
I think there is an e mail somewhere in one of these threads where Citizens accepted the strap as a double wrap. I’ll look and see if I have a copy.

Mike, the race went as well as can be expected given the conditions. A wind chill in the 30s and the gusts to 25 mph, I still managed to set a personal best of 2:46:24. Two years to “Boston”!

Way to go.

I could never run. Even when I played football, running laps I was always in the back with the fat kid.

That is why I learned Martial Arts. I knew I
I could not out run trouble :slight_smile:

You are preaching to the choir. I am on your side on this one. Obviously, the insurance carriers have bought an engineer to support their position of denying the “double wrap” designation in an effort the lower discounts. Do the math. If they can buy an engineer’s opinion to hide behind for $500, the difference in discount money between a double wrap designation to a clip or other over many policies would be a financial windfall for the carrier.

again, I am on your side (I believe the correct side- both scientifically and ethically), however, the final call will always rest with the underwriter/carrier. It is their game. They make the rules and can change them to suit their needs.

Until one of the “head underwriters” and their “engineer” publish something else to go on I will go by my opinion and that of the several other classes given.

That doesn’t make it right and certainly, when it costs people money. Just like the improper designation of clips on the previous form as well as the error regarding tile roofs.

We won’t even get into what the manufacturer has to say about two straps on each side of the truss that doesn’t wrap over the truss with five nails in each side, which is currently classified as a clip.

As per the Building Code Compliance (AHJ) dept this was inspected and approved to be/have…

You guys are out to lunch

Although you can not see your brain, does this mean it does not exist? Put the liability back where it belongs…