An associate I worked with in the past, just had a home inspection on a house in Lake Placid, Florida. The house has a one-year-old, high efficiency, Trane Heat Pump.
The Inspector provided this information in the report.
Assume you are required by the state (Fla. and other states) to test and report this condition in your reports.
Consider there is no specific test procedure in the State HI Rules (because it is beyond what a HI inspects) so it is up to us to make up something as we go along…
What would be the process and if it would be responsible to cost someone the price of HVAC inspection?
Here is a pic of the Thermostat to help assess equipment operation:
Please look this over and post your determination to the operation of the Heater and how you would fulfill the requirement of the HI SOP.
I will answer any additional questions if available to me from the report.
In my opinion, any HI that has this requirement from their State Law, should be able to determine the equipment operation and be versed in how it should be reported based on the State requirement.
Do you feel that this requires a more in depth training for a procedure that is outside standard HI Laws?
Considering/assuming this was in the last few weeks, and the Heat Mode was fully active and running…
that’s not much of an increase over ambiant.
Seems a more in-depth evaluation by an HVAC Tech would be suggested by the HI.
Also note: taking temp readings with an IR Thermometer at the elevated Return and Supply grates, at distance, are possibly out of range of the thermometer, thus reporting innacurate temps.
I’m sure there is much more to this, but that was my thought with only a quick glance and limited information.
Infrared thermometers are not reliable for assessing HVAC efficiency or accurately measuring air temperature. Without a narrative it is impossible to even guess what the HI was representing with those pictures. The HI could benefit from more training in HVAC operation and testing.
My opinion, those numbers on the IR thermometer don’t really mean anything as to whether the unit is functioning properly. I sure as heck wouldn’t use them to say one way or the other anyway.
Please do not use IR to determine air temps. An IR thermometer is only capable of determining surface temperatures, NOT air temps. As both a Home Inspector and an HVAC test and balance tech I can tell you that the only accurate temps have to be taken in the supply and return ducts. Poking holes in ducts would seem to be outside any HI SOP.
Ditto. Did the report say the hvac wasn’t working, or did the HI include those (useless) pictures to say that it was working? If I had seen that on site with above freezing outdoor temperatures and the system running for a while I would have taken a probe thermometer reading in the return and supply at the unit and written it as not functioning properly.
An infrared temperature reading of the register and return can give a good ballpark notion of whether the heat pump is working. It can also show the difference between heat pump and heat strip heating.
There is a lot of science to precisely measuring hvac performance, but approximate register readings are fine for home inspectors. I’d like to see how many HIs actually do wet bulb measurements or calculations and what value they think that adds to their report.
My home inspection identified a delta T of only a couple degrees diff with heat mode. Inspector advised should be checked/repaired. 1 yo system. Is this an issue?
But no one has trained or addressed this in State Regulations.
Poling holes is not required in HI SOP. but the state is saying that you must test, but not how, or the fact that there is a standard already in place to make these tests.
Was it running?!
Look at the thermostat again. What is the set point differential (on/off temps) of most thermostats? With a 3F delta, was it really running or purging?
How many heat stages do we potentially have on a heat pump? Three? With no, or low call for heat, how many stages will run with a 3F delta?
This is a high end Trane, and it may even have an OD Thermostat to prevent heat overrun.
I have no clue. Heat Pumps are not very popular in Minnesota.
I see ‘maybe’ one or two a year… which most of those tend to be Geo-Thermal Systems, and get referred to Specialists.
HP Refrigeration. Comes on around 2F below set point.
Stage 1: One heat strip. Comes on when refrigeration can not keep up with the house heat loss rate.
Stage 2: Heat strip #1 and #2. You will generally only see these up in your neck of the woods!
This is kind of my point. Should the States be requiring HI’s to do these tests without providing a procedure and training?
Also, When a state requires taking a delta, are they just wanting the measurements recorded (like the fuel type of the heater), or do they expect analysis from a non-Specialist?
If the HI brings it upon themselves to add on an “opinion” to the report, which is allowed if you’re qualified to do so, what happens when they are wrong? Can they send the liability back to the state because they required it?
I would hope that Minnesota would not bring it upon itself to add this on to you guys. But I do appreciate your input.
If the outside temp was only 10 degrees (say somewhere around 60) then there should have been a pretty good temp split in heat pump mode. Its only when you’re getting down to 40 that a heat pump should struggle, and a new modern one should still be doing something.
That thermostat pic shows 75 indoor temp and the thermostat calling for 77. Traditional thermostats will switch to auxiliary heating at that point, however I’ve been seeing more programmable ones recently where you have to manually activate the heat strips.
As far as a duct issue, it’s certainly possible, hence checking temps at the unit. But that is still a defect.
Honestly, unless the inspector failed to give the system time to get up and running, it seems likely there was some issue with the function of the system at the time of the inspection. Why does there need to be a state defined testing process? Not seeing a meaningful temp rise at a register when the system is running is usually indicative that there is a problem that a tech should address.
And new systems can have issues. A developer around here had hvac installers who miswired thermostats (or something like that) preventing the furnace from coming on. I found one for a client prior to closing, and when I came back for an 11 month inspection he told me 2 neighbors found the same problem.
Minnesota is a non-regulated State, so it’s not an issue for HI’s, from a legality viewpoint.
I appreciate your posts and information you provide as it helps me to learn about what I don’t know, and participating adds to the education. I am not afraid to voice my opinions or questions. As you are aware, education is never ending, and the ones that don’t understand that, are the ones to be concerned about!
It would be helpful if any of you in Fla, Tx, etc who have this requirement, would post reference to this verbiage requiring.
We are not looking for right or wrong answers in this matter, just your opinion on how you would/or would not deal with this potential requirement.
The HI that took these pics is likely correct that something is wrong.
The point is that there are a lot of considerations in making a call like this. It would be helpful to all of you if you knew more as to why you are right or wrong.
The matter is being handled under warranty, and I’ll let you know how it turns out.
