flexible plastic water supply?

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#1

Originally Posted By: jmichalski
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While inspecting a mobile (manufactured) home today (my first) I encountered something I was not really expecting…flexible, grey plastic tubing used throughout the home for water supply.


The main supply is insulated with heat tape (improperly), and the rest concealed within the structure, but I encountered two areas where it was visible that I am interested in others opinions/experience with...

1) the plastic is used at the water heater for supply and distribution. It seems that this is a hazard (as flues must be a minimum distance from other types of plastic supply lines) and I have heard (from a GC friend) the specific tubing used may have been recalled - though I am not sure how to check on that. Any thoughts?

2) the "workmanship" in the picture below...

[ Image: http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/1/100_0587.JPG ]

My question here is: Is the plastic to copper a proper transition, and properly installed (ultimately terminating in a shower head)?

I love the duct tape...performed by the same contractor as the copper tubing, hence the reason for my questioning the proper methods on the other work...

Any help?

#2

Originally Posted By: roconnor
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That may be Polybutylene (PB) piping … be very careful there, and check out these links:


www.pbpipe.com
www.polybutylene.com

--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

#3

Originally Posted By: rcallis
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I agree about the duct tape application and check on the polybutylene pipe.


Those couplings are used all the time in my area. They come with different adapters to use to join copper, pvc, and galvanized. I've never seen one leak in all I've seen.

Reggie

#4

Originally Posted By: jmichalski
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Thanks for the replies!


I suspected PB, but I have never seen it first hand and I expected it would have been more rigid (more like pvc) and I also could not find a section long enough to see the "PB" stamped on it anywhere.

I think I will treat it as such - I suspect PB - and recommend evaluation by a plumbing professional. I will also include the information and links regarding the class action that you provided.

Thanks again!

#5

Originally Posted By: dvalley
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Joseph,


Is this a newer mobile home?

Newer homes have flexible pipes (white/ red/ blue/ light gray) these are not polybutylene, check the pipe, they are probably Vanguard or Quest. They may be connected to a Manablock (similar to a breaker panel , only it is for the water feeds).

This type of piping does not seem to have any draw backs at all and the connection to copper would not be an issue as long as the copper is properly threaded.

But being close to the vent connector would definitely be an issue as far as I'm concerned. This plastic piping will have a tendency to melt.

--
David Valley
MAB Member

Massachusetts Certified Home Inspections
http://www.masscertified.com

"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go."

#6

Originally Posted By: jmichalski
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DAvid,


It is 1988 construction, so I am not sure but I think that puts it right in the middle of the PB time frame...

The markings in the photo are about the best I could manage to find - ion case they didn't translate well, they read; "D--05-04-88-1POTABLE"

I assume that is a manufacture date and that htye were rated for potable water, but I suspect the really informative part is cut off above and obscured below. Any thoughts given the age?

#7

Originally Posted By: dvalley
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for Identification purposes. Your piping does fit this category.

–
David Valley


MAB Member


Massachusetts Certified Home Inspections
http://www.masscertified.com

"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go."
#8

Originally Posted By: jmichalski
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Thanks David,


MY client is actually the daughter of the owner who wants to know how much her mom is in for to fix the place up. Her stories about frequent leaks seem to coincide with the reported defects of PB, so I am including the information you posted for her review and recommending a complete review by a licensed plumber.

Thanks for the advice... It's funny so far everything I inspect is either brand spankin new or 200 years old...PB never even crossed my mind until now!

#9

Originally Posted By: jhagarty
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Joe:


PB Piping if 1988.

Look for the PB2110 Nomenclature. Recommend further evaluation of the plumbing system at a minimum.

Replacement would be generally indicated in this area.

--
Joseph Hagarty

HouseMaster / Main Line, PA
joseph.hagarty@housemaster.com
www.householdinspector.com

Phone: 610-399-9864
Fax : 610-399-9865

HouseMaster. Home inspections. Done right.

#10

Originally Posted By: jmichalski
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Thanks, Joe.


I told her it is likely, given the history of leaks she has relayed to me, that it will be recommended that the entire system be replaced. Not being a plumber, and not being within my bounds to give an estimate, I left the discussion at that, and referred her to a plumber I trust.

She was grateful for the information that I was able to provide though, so thanks to everyone for the links, and helping me educate a client (and myself!)

ALways learning....

#11

Originally Posted By: roconnor
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And there is some typical canned wording on PB pipe ... I think from Erby (thanks Erby ... lol):

Quote:
Polybutylene (PB) water lines have had a history of problems. There were no apparent leaks found in the visible portions of the Polybutylene plumbing system at the time of the inspection. Due to finished walls and ceilings, the entire Polybutylene plumbing system was not visible. In addition, problems are not always visible. Hidden defects or leaks not fully visible at the time of the inspection may appear. A qualified licensed plumber familiar with Polybutylene plumbing should be contacted if a complete evaluation is desired. For additional information, contact the Consumer Plumbing Recovery Center at 1-800-356-3496, or on the web at www.pbpipe.com and www.polybutylene.com


PEX is a newer material here in the US ... and is usually blue, red, or milky white.

--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
#12

Originally Posted By: jpeck
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The duct tape was used because they were tying to glue to incompatible material together and could not get a good glue joint. At least that is what I think the reason was.

–
Jerry Peck


South Florida