Did a flip house that had a new service panel (2013 permit). Can’t find the final inspection on the permit but I found a panel with 10 circuits and only 4 neutrals. The only MWBC was for the dryer so there should be more neutrals. Only found 3 receptacles without ground. I called it out for examination by an electrician, but an electrician did the service change. Maybe the grounds were being used for neutrals, but suddenly I an having a brain fart and wonder if I am missing something.
Comments?
I would not concern about the electrician who did??? the service .
If you have found faults then report them as needing repairs by an electrician .
Roy Cooke A retired electrician
Do you have some photo’s?
Roy, I agree, find many problems done by electricians. Just wondering if I am overthinking this
yes, but they are hard to see. Look closely and you see only 4 neutrals. As I said the only MWBC is the 30 amp dryer.
What year was the house?
Age has no impact. 1925. But the new electric permit was pulled in 2013. And only 3 recpts showed no ground.
Age does have an impact unless they replaced all the wiring. You didn’t say that, you said panel replacement. It wouldn’t be the first time someone spliced into a neutral for a K&T or non-ground NM receptacles.
No K&T in the house. You can see in the attic and crawl space all new NM cable, including colors for the gauge. And no wire nuts in the panel to pigtail multiple neutrals.
Were these branch circuit conductors in conduit? Looks like there are 8-120 volt circuits if they were all set up as MWBC’s then you would have 4 neutrals. It’s hard to tell what’s going on from the photo’s do you have any others?
Nope that is it. And nothing was in conduit. Like I said, I could see all new NM cable in the crawl space and the attic. there was only one MWBC and that was for the dryer. All but one of the ungrounded conductors were black and one was white remarked with black marker. And no pigtails for the neutrals. Just thought I should see more neutrals.
This sounds like a 240 volt circuit no neutral required
( All but one of the ungrounded conductors were black and one was white remarked with black marker )
I think you might be good if you got more instruction on electrical .
Class room or trips out with an established inspector .
A/C unit doesn’t require a neutral. So the 10 hots and 4 neutrals may be correct.
Jeff
So the NM cables entered the panel were the neutrals cut off?
Sorry Roy, but that is BS and a little arrogant on your part. I have wired 3 houses, one solar and off grid. I don’t need “instruction” on electrical. I have been doing this for 9 years. There was not a 220 circuit except for the dryer. Nothing in the house used 220 (gas stove) but the dryer.
The only thing I can now think of is they used a neutral for a hot and pigtailed a bunch of neutrals in the attic together to only run a few wires instead of all of them. That is the only thing that makes sense.
Did not see cut neutrals entering the panel.
I may go back tomorrow and investigate more cause this is nutty and I want to know why.
With your knowledge then the errors should have jumped out to you.
A good volt meter would have shown what is wrong .
220 volts has not been around for 30 plus years it has been 240 volts for some time .
Also, a 30A, 240v dryer circuit is not a MWBC.
If you read the definition of a MWBC it is.
And you are right Roy. Bad habit.
Arrogant Not trying to be . When I was working as an electrician I regularly took courses to stay on top of the industry . When I left the trade and became a home Inspector I did the same thing read a lot and took many courses .
Glad you have some electrical knowledge but from what I read improvement is nice to do and I do recommend it…
I asked about the possibility of a raceway because typically NM cable does not have insulated green EGC’s. Also aside from the 30 amp circuit there are what appears to be 8 black conductors. If those enter in two wire cables (assumption since there are not red conductors) then there should be 8 white conductors with them.