Gas detection, etc???

Originally Posted By: KipHamilton
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Hi guys, please excuse this question from a newby, but I’d be interested in a dialogue from some of the “old-timers”.


In reading over many of the subjects on the message boards trying to get a "feel" for the business, I have noticed many discussions on specific functions that go well beyond NACHI's published Standards of Practice, for instance a recent thread on looking for gas leaks.

In general, is anyone concerned about a liability issue here?

I mean, it states in the SoP that the inspector is not required to use leak detection equipment. So, if one of us inspected a property where there may be an active leak of some kind and did not discover or report on it, then it seems like there is little legal problem because the customer agreed that the inspection would be done to the NACHI standards which did not require leak detection equipment, and it would be understandable that such a leak might not be discovered in the course of a visual inspection.

BUT, what if a NACHI inspector whips out his/her gas detector and does a search for leaks and misses one? I think the argument could be made that by using the detector, the inspector was going beyond the scope of the SoP and could/might/whatever be negligent in missing the leak (whereas, if the detector had not come out of the truck in the first place, everything would be ok)

I know the language says "is not required", so let's not have a discussion on semantics, here...I'm more interested in the more "cosmic" question of liability.

And not on this single issue, there seems to be many items "excluded" from the SoP, by virtue of their not being "required", but intuitively, it seems like if performed (like a leak test, or a search for cracked burners, or a microwave test, or (fill in the blank)) the end result would be a much more comprehensive inspection/report.

So what do you guys think?

Thanks! Kip


Originally Posted By: dfrend
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I think unless you are the gas company, FD, or liscensed gas contractor you should be careful. I have to agree that it could be a huge liability.



Daniel R Frend


www.nachifoundation.org


The Home Inspector Store


www.homeinspectorstore.com

Originally Posted By: jpope
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My pre-inspection agreement is fairly specific as to what is included AND excluded in my inspection.


My teaching was to attach an addendum to the agreement whenever I include a service that has been excluded by my agreement. For instance, I provide pool and spa inspections even though they are excluded in my standard agreement. I have a separate agreement that is attached as an addendum to allow for these "additional" services.

Personally, I'm not comfortable carrying equipment used to test items that I have excluded from my standard inspection unless I use the item for personal safety (e.g. voltage sniffer). I don't carry gas detectors, microwave leak detectors or even a moisture meter.

I think it's a matter of personal preference for most inspectors. For me, is more a matter of "presumed" liability.


--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: roconnor
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I agree with Jeff and Dan … using specialized testing equipment goes beyond the SOP, is not needed for a “visual” home inspection, and can be a huge liability.


See this post also for both sides of the coin:

http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/viewtopic.php?t=1593

Along those lines, here is my faviorite tool list:

http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/viewtopic.php?p=12218#12218

I like to use the "Harry Homeowner" rule, where I dont use any specialized testing equipment for a home inspection that a typical homeowner wouldn't use, or at least be expected to use. Easy to apply, and IMHO very defensible legally.


--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

Originally Posted By: bemelander
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Kip,


I do own a gas detector and used it on almost every inspection my first year. Now after reading previous post on this subject it stays in my bag. If I smell gas I will then take it out to try to locate the leak. I would then report to my customer that I found a leak and it shuold be refered for repairs.


Bill



Anchor Home Inspections


bill@anchorinspections.com

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Kip,


I too concur with Robert. I use the "Harry Homeowner" tool kit. (guess Robert remembers Hechinger) The only addition I have with it is an amp clamp. This area is almost all electric strip heat furnaces, so the only way to tell whether all three or four strips are working is to check the amperage.

Just too many horror stories around about lawyers and home inspectors with ancillary equipment past the standards of practice.

Blaine ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)


Originally Posted By: pdacey
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Quote:
I have a separate agreement that is attached as an addendum to allow for these "additional" services.


Jeff,

Do you have an addendum for each additional item or just one addendum that covers all additional services?


--
Slainte!

Patrick Dacey
swi@satx.rr.com
TREC # 6636
www.southwestinspections.com

Originally Posted By: KipHamilton
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OK, thanks guys…


It seemed to me that there was a liability thing to worry about. 'Glad you all think so too!

Kip


Originally Posted By: kluce
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I think a lot of the questions asked are for personal knowledge only. Somebody has went on a job and reported the problem properly and then comes here to ask questions that could go beyond the HI’s job.


Originally Posted By: jpope
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Patrick,


The addendum I use specifically allows for pools and spas, listing what is included in the inspection plus a list of exclusions. Currently, I don't do anything else outside my standard home inspection that would require an additional addendum.

However, I do plan to add additional services in the future, such as mold inspection and sampling & radon sampling. When I've completed my training and begin to offer these, I will have a separate addendum for each.

In essence if a client requested all of my services during one inspection, they would be signing four seperate contracts.

Oh, and they would be paying me a whole bunch of money ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)


--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: roconnor
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Kip … Just keep in mind that there are two sides to every coin, and there doesn’t seem to be a consensus on specialized testing among home inspectors … the reason I posted the link above.


Whatever you decide, remember that one of the best things you can do for your clients safety is to make sure that all the Fire/CO/Gas detectors per the latest standards/recommendations are ALL there and correctly located/installed (no matter how old the house is). They save lives ... ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)

Blaine ... I have to admit that I have been applying the "Harry Homeowner" rule for so long that I don't recall the origin ... but you are ringing a bell in the cobwebs ... lol. You will have to refresh my memory ...


--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Robert,


Harry and Harriet Homeowner were the trademark characters of the Hechinger Home Centers which were located from Virginia to somewhere up around New Jersey. They were the predecessor of The Big Orange.

They went out of business around 1997 or so, because of their motto: High prices and poor selection...or at least that was the way they operated.

So, Harry and Harriet Homeowner live on ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)

Blaine


Originally Posted By: roconnor
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Blaine … that does ring a bell, but the “Harry Homeowner” rule goes back even further than that … I think related to a lawsuit involving a home inspection where the inspector won. I will have to dig a little when I get some more time.



Robert O’Connor, PE


Eagle Engineering ?


Eagle Eye Inspections ?


NACHI Education Committee


I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

Originally Posted By: dbroad
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I am new to the inspection business, however I just did a house that as soon as we opened the door I could smell the gas. The buyer said the owner clamied he left the gas on and the pilot lights were not on. I got my bottle of soap and water and sprayed some gas valves and found a leak. I turned of the propain tank right away as the lady I was inspecting the house for did not know how. I put the leak in my report. Is there anything else that I should of done?


Originally Posted By: rking
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Dale,


I would have refused to do the inspection until the home had been cleared of any gas/fumes. You walked into an explosive situation and could have been killed along with your client.
I am a volunteer firefighter and have seen what gas explosions can do up close and personal.
Do not put yourself or others in harms way!


--
Muskoka Home Inspections
"Wisdom is the Anticipation of the Consequences"
Steering Committee Member At Large

Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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Hi Dale,


I have to agree with Robert's comments above. If you smell gas that strongly in a building which you are inspecting, get the hell out until the gas has been turned off and the home has been vented. A gas leak into a building is just a big bomb waiting to go off.

It is also worth saying that had you not turned the gas fully off and there was still leaksge and a resultant loud noise, guess who would have owned it ![icon_confused.gif](upload://qv5zppiN69qCk2Y6JzaFYhrff8S.gif)

regards

Gerry


--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466

Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com

"Education is a journey, not a destination"

Originally Posted By: mbailey
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Robert and Gerry? good points about safety. These last several posts also provide an additional scenario in answer to Kip?s questions about liability.



Mark Bailey


Stonegate Property Inspections LLC


Ponca, NE

Originally Posted By: KipHamilton
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Yeah, Thanks guys!


Kip


Originally Posted By: rking
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Aaawww shucks icon_redface.gif


It feels so good to be of help and actually, even for a moment, be appreciated



Muskoka Home Inspections


“Wisdom is the Anticipation of the Consequences”


Steering Committee Member At Large

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Dale,


I'm a little late here, and will invoke the echo syndrome, but, My Big fat hairy backside would have been outta there so fast It would have looked like a lightning bolt.

One spark and Kapow!!!

Glad you survived it. Live and learn.

Blaine ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)