Government Investigation of AZ BTR.

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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Justin:


Don't worry. I promise that if you or Mark Simmons gets a $5,000.00 fine... I'll pay it myself and then I'll collect it X1000.


--
Nick Gromicko
Founder
dues=79cents/day.

I much prefer email to private messages.

Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
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This is one of those things I know nothing about and plan to stay out of as much as possible, but the questions are interesting. Just for the sake of the exercise…


Is it true that the board is made up solely of ASHI members and that they keep non-ASHI members off the board?

The first part may or may not be true, but should be proveable either way. The second part probably could not be proven, even if true.

Is it true that the board hinders competition? How?

Possible, and could be proveable if true. It would have to be at least partly by a pattern of voting and their are records of that.

Is it true that the head of an ASHI Chapter became an AZ employee associated connected with the board?

Even if true that would prove nothing in and of itself. I would think a number of employees connected to the board would be from within the industry, they call that "background". At best it could be one brick in a wall of circumstantial evidence.

Is it true that a board member demanded and accepted payment for parallel inspections from an applicant to the board on which he sits?

I must admit I'm not exactly sure what a parallel inspection is, but demanding and accepting payments from an applicant for anything would be unethical and illegal.

Is it is true that there is a board member who also runs a home inspection school that sells parallel inspections and has an indentured-servitude scheme going via this school? Is he still on the board?

This also sounds bad, but the devil is in the details.

Is it true that the board is harassing members of NACHI saying that they can't join NACHI until the are licensed or else will be fined $5,000.00?

This and the case above regarding Justin (the co-owner) are most likely about percieved "misrepresentation" by members who are not yet licensed in AZ, but are listed on the NACHI website on the "Find an Inspector" search for AZ. If he hasn't told anyone he is an inspector or done any inspections I don't see how they can do much, except perhaps insist on removing the name from the search list.

Boards are supposed to be independent of the inspectors they license and this board should be considered innocent until proven guilty. I'm not accusing anyone of anything but some of these outside accusations if true are criminal and could lead to jail time. Abuse of office for profit is a crime.

....I need help separating fact from rumor before I feel comfortable enough to pass it on.

That's the attitude Nick, stick to the high road until you get the facts. Egg is hard to get off of anything, face included.


Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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you need to respond to.


I as Executive Director will not permit one of my members to be fined. He did nothing wrong. Here are my 3 duties as I now see them:

1. My duty as Executive Director demands that I do everything in my power to make sure that my fellow member Justin doesn't suffer a $5,000.00 fine. The fine would be horrible from a negative-marketing point even when if I pay it personally.

2. My duty to fellow member Michael is to honor his request for time. He has all the time he needs or wants.

3. My duty to my own personal self-honor demands that I retaliate like there's no tomorrow if I fail at #1.


--
Nick Gromicko
Founder
dues=79cents/day.

I much prefer email to private messages.

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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Nick Gromicko


Founder


dues=79cents/day.


I much prefer email to private messages.

Originally Posted By: dharris
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[quote=“gromicko”]Here Brian… have at it:


[i]


I can tell all of you from personal experience that I was called by the BTR yesterday. I was out of the office and returned a call directed to me specifically by the BTR. I called back Karen at the BTR to be told that I was under investigation for performing home inspections without a license. I was on the block because of being listed on NACHI’s website.





I was also informed that I had to immediately make sure that my name is not associated with any advertising for my company. Which I co-own, and paid a great deal of money to start. No advertising can have my name associated with it, according to the conversation that I had with Kay. Advertising is illegal? Does not make sense to me, and I am glad NACHI has agreed to help pursue the matter legally.

Before writing all those $ 5,000 checks and expecting a great return

Maybe one should read the AZ professional Conduct for AZ`Home Inspectors
#1 not engage in fraud, deceit, misrepresentation or concealment of material facts in advertising, soliciting or providing professional services to members of the public
#2 comply with state, municipal, and county laws,cods, ordinances, and regulations pertaining to practice
#3 not violate any state or federal criminal statue involving dishonesty, fraud misrepresentation embezzlement, theft, forgery bribery, or breach of fiduciary duty, if the violation is reasonably related to practice
#4-11 relates to performing the inspection or other disclosures


Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
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Dan,


So explain how exactly that these rules in any way justify a $5000 fine? How did our fellow NACHI member violate the law? Why is he, specifically, being targeted, when there are others in your stte practicing without a license. I have read another complaint, and in that case, the show is on the other foot, but the BTR isnt doing anythng about it.

At best, it is an example of selective enforcement, at worse, its restraint of trade.

So, which is it?


--
Joe Farsetta

Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."

Originally Posted By: psabados
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Someone that owns a company and can not advertise that fact. Sounds like restraint of trade to me.


Let's see, I pay bills, I hire employees that meet the state law requirements, whether sub-contract or payrolled, pay the required insurances, enforce the rules from a management position, risk my investments and use my time running the business. But I can't advertise that hey, "THIS IS MY COMPANY", I can't advertise that I belong to certain trade organizations? Thats wrong, sound very illegal.

How many sleezeball, remodelers, window installers, roofer etc. advertize in AZ. I can not believe that everyone of them is an actual, pass the tests bonofide, certified licensed person, no-way. Company yes, but not owner.

Smells like raw sewage to me

Paul


Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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NACHI advertises NACHI and that advertising is linked to our membership list. Hardly consumer deception! Joe Farsetta and I are both advertised as inspectors in AZ and neither one of us is licensed in AZ. Are all the ASHI Candidates who did nothing but write a check and send it in getting fined?. Is the mere filing of a home inspection corporation in AZ advertising? … the filing is public and on a website too. Advertising isn’t the issue… the issue is board independence.


A lopsided licensing board (if that is what this is) has to take extra care to not only act independent but also APPEAR independent.

Much like a "conflict of interest" doesn't in and of itself mean anyone is doing anything wrong... it nevertheless must be avoided at all costs for appearance sake.

We have one other ASHI lopsided board in Indiana (3 ASHI, and 1 NACHI). The poor ASHI members are already being accused of bias and they only had their 2nd meeting. Keeping the appearance of independence is sometimes more difficult than actually acting independent.

Stuff like this is why licensing board selection should be kept well balanced.


--
Nick Gromicko
Founder
dues=79cents/day.

I much prefer email to private messages.

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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Not “raw sewage”… ASHI… the two odors are often confused with each other. I might be wrong (or should I say… my nose might be wrong), but it would be a first.


If I'm wrong I'll cut my nose off ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif).


We'll see what Michael comes up with.


--
Nick Gromicko
Founder
dues=79cents/day.

I much prefer email to private messages.

Originally Posted By: dharris
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jfarsetta wrote:
Dan,

So explain how exactly that these rules in any way justify a $5000 fine? How did our fellow NACHI member violate the law? Why is he, specifically, being targeted, when there are others in your stte practicing without a license. I have read another complaint, and in that case, the show is on the other foot, but the BTR isnt doing anythng about it.

At best, it is an example of selective enforcement, at worse, its restraint of trade.

So, which is it?


Before we go anywhere let me 1st make this clear.
This is my own personal opinion and NO One from ashi or the btr has contacted me to determine what I say on these posts and I AM NOT a board member of the btr nor ashi

How do these rules justify a 5,000 fine?
Beats me, If you break state law I guess there needs to be a penalty worth while

How did our fellow nachi member break the law?

At present it has not been determined any body broke the law
From what i've seen the party in question is advertising on a national marketed find a inspector site and marketing locally on own website with out any disclosures that he is not licensed to practice performing HI in this state and his site also claims he is a nachi certified inspector [with the gold seal and all] misleading to the public??

Deceit, misrepresentation or concealment of material facts in advertising?

It would make a good argument if it was presented to me as the public in general don't know licensing requirements, I know how worthless the GOLD seal is but does the genaral public

Why is he being specifically being targeted?

If you go to the btr site there have been 4-5 or more unlicensed inspectors already penalized, I don't think they belonged to this org or any other org

A complaint on another inspector and the btr is not doing any thing about it.
Like I stated earlier on in this subject the btr members are professionals in other profession and I don't believe they would put there careers in jeopardy to favor 1 group or person

Restraint of trade
As a inspector that fulfilled all state requirements I don't see any restraint of trade'
The state law requires inspectors to be certified, by meeting state requirements not only nachi's requirements
the state law requires a lot of other professions to be also lic or certified


Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
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NY’s State Education Law provides that individuals must be licensed as professional engineers to perform structural evaluations of dwellngs. Many inspectors advertise thay part of their inspection includes a structural evaluation.


Unless the inspector crosses the line in what he astually does and charges for, he has not broken the law.

Seems reasonable to me that if an inspector's name appears on a website or in a brochure, so long as he does not perform the inspection, he has broken no law.

Deceptive practices come into play if the Client is not receiving what they pay for. In this example, they have neither contracted with, notr paid for services. There is no deception.


--
Joe Farsetta

Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."

Originally Posted By: dharris
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



[quote=“psabados”]Someone that owns a company and can not advertise that fact. Sounds like restraint of trade to me.


There is a big difference between a contractor and HI here
The owner of a contracting co or qualifying party are only required to be licensed, and they can hire employees that work under there lic

A HI inspector is required to be independently certified / licensed, I don't believe there are any restrictions on who can own company but there are restrictions stating that you are required to be a state lic inspector to advertise' your self as a certified inspector to genaral public


Originally Posted By: dharris
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[


Seems reasonable to me that if an inspector's name appears on a website or in a brochure, so long as he does not perform the inspection, he has broken no law.

Agreed. From what I've seen here this is only an investigation and no body has been convicted of any thing


Originally Posted By: dharris
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Quote:

and of course we know a member was pressured into pulling NACHI radio ads.


Sounds a little slanderous to me

I've known Scott for almost 3 years now, Trust me, nobody will pressure him into any thing, [ not to mention his decision resulted in loss of much needed revenue towards his radio show] if you recall he stated it was a ethical decision and Scott has strong and totally ethical convictions


Originally Posted By: mcraig
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Is it true that the board is made up solely of ASHI members and that they keep non-ASHI members off the board?


No there are no ASHI members at all on the board; there are no Home Inspectors even on the board.


CHAIR


Chet L. Pearson, Environmental Engineer


VICE-CHAIR


Robert F. Roos, Public Member


SECRETARY


Stuart R. Lane, Land Surveyor


Richard Pawelko, Architect


William M. Greenslade, Geologist


Ronald A. Starling, Structural Engineer


Gary J. Nelson, Architect


Joy Lyndes, Landscape Architect


Priscilla S. Cornelio, Civil Engineer


There are two committees one for Rules and regulations which is headed up by Melinda Baughman this committee has 5 members 2 are ASHI members and there is an open seat that we could have (with a qualified applicant) I was given a guaranty by a board member that it has been written in the rules that ASHI can never have more than the two seats they now have. (I can help any member that wants to apply for this seat I cannot be in this position at this time but I can help put some one in it)


Chair:Peter J. Leeds


Members: Brion C. Grant, David Swartz, Robert F. Roos and Richard Pawelko


The second committee is the Investigations committee it is headed up by Kathryn Fuller and has no ASHI members on it at all.


Is it true that the board hinders competition? How?
This is a tough one to answer but I will try. The BTR is a bureaucratic agency it can take a year to get your certification because of the process set up to get certified. It is the luck of the draw the way it works is you turn in all of your reports to be evaluated they hand your reports to Qualified Volunteer home inspectors to check them if a good consensus inspector gets them he gets them done right away if you get one that is not in a hurry he has up to six months to get threw them (the BTR has to wait for the reports to be returned to them so they wait too)





Is it true that the head of an ASHI Chapter became an AZ employee associated connected with the board?
No this is a rumor that started a year ago when one of the associates in the office left the BTR to work part time for ASHI in an assistant position


Is it true that a board member demanded and accepted payment for parallel inspections from an applicant to the board on which he sits?
No one was able to substantiate this one at this time but there are no Home Inspectors on the Board so this is doughtful. (May be he is a Committee member?)


Is it true that there is a board member who also runs a home inspection school that sells parallel inspections and has an indentured-servitude scheme going via this school? Is he still on the board?
No Allan is not a board member at all, He has hired several students in the past to work for him but very few. There are a lot of sour grapes because Allan offers as part of the school to help people get threw there parallel inspections the other schools do not so there are a lot of HI?s that go to other schools and then are upset because no one will help them get there parallel inspections.

His years of education and experience have enabled him to open an inspection school and has personally trained many other inspectors in Phoenix, Tucson, and all of central and southeastern Arizona.

Mr. Blaker's Accomplishments:
? Charter member and first president of the Arizona Chapter of the American Society of Home Inspectors (two year term)
? Arizona ASHI Chapter Board of Directors (four of the last nine years)
? ASHI International Board of Directors (six of the last eight years)
? ASHI International Council of Representatives
? Arizona ASHI Legislative Committee Chair
? ASHI International Chapter Mentoring Program Chair
? ASHI International Insurance Committee (two years)
? ASHI International Bylaws Committee (three years)
? ASHI National Education Conference Entertainment Committee Chair (two years)
? ASHI Education Exam Question Committee
? ASHI On-Line Task Force Chair
? Kiwanian since 1985
? Past President: Kiwanis Club of the Old Pueblo
? Served on numerous committees for the Tucson Board of Realtors
? Writer of Home Inspection Newsletter distributed in Tucson & Phoenix
? Affiliate: Tucson Board of Realtors
? Expert Witness in Pima County Superior Court
? Elected to the elite "Presidents Circle" of the InspecTech Corporation
Is it true that the board is harassing members of NACHI saying that they can't join NACHI until the are licensed or else will be fined $5,000.00?
No I will have to explain this in depth.
There all the questions have been answered now I can try and go in to information on the Last question. Some of you are not going to like this but there are regulations out here that are specific that must be followed.
I just spent several hours at the BTR in an office with the head of the rules and regulations and the head of the investigations committees and one board member and here is what was told to me as is I will not sugar coat it at all. A complaint was filed by a home buyer not a ASHI member or member of any other organization against several home inspectors that were listed on the findaninspector.us web sight when the investigation started it was noted that there were members listed as home inspectors ?doing business? at Zip codes in Arizona it is not wrong to be a member of NACHI but it is wrong to be listed as doing business in Arizona without being state certified the wording of the list?s in findaninspector.us says ?doing business? at a location this is what triggered this investigation. As it progressed they found other discrepancies. Nick I never got the other names of HI?s to find out about so here is the information on Justin Gushard and JAM home Inspections There was no Dollar amount set on this for a fine that is determined by the board after a hearing is conducted and a fine is warranted. Justin is not AZ certified and said that they were part owner of JAM Home Inspection if this is true Jam Home inspection, as a Firm should have been registered with the BTR too.

32-141. Firm registration
A. A firm shall not engage in the practice of any Board regulated profession or occupation unless the firm is registered with the Board and the professional services are conducted under the full authority and responsible charge of a principal of the firm, who is also a registrant.
B. A person shall file a registration application for each branch office that is located in this state and that is part of a firm registered with the Board. The branch office application shall list a designated registrant having full authority and responsible charge of the professional services of that branch office. The designated registrant in a branch office need not be a principal of the firm.
C. A firm wishing to offer professional services in this state shall file with the Board an application for registration on a form provided by the Board and accompanied by the appropriate application fee as prescribed by the Board. Firms shall also identify responsible registrants by the registrant's registration certificate number. Each firm shall list a description of the services the firm is offering to the public. The Board shall be notified in writing within thirty days of any change occurring in the registered principals, or any change in the firm's name or address or any change in a branch office address or designated registrant. A new application shall be filed each year by the firm within thirty days of the anniversary date of the original firm registration.
D. No firm may advertise its availability to perform home inspections by home inspectors certified pursuant to this chapter unless each home inspection is performed by a home inspector certified pursuant to this chapter and each home inspection report is prepared as a result of the inspector's on-site observation.
Then when the investigation went to there listed web sight they found a testimonial from Stevie H. in Goodyear, AZ that said
"Both Justin and Mark were courteous and professional,
enjoyable to work with. The inspection and report were
detailed and thorough. I would not hesitate to recommend
them to anyone."--Stevie H.--Goodyear, Arizona

In the legal realm this would appear to the normal customer reading it that both are home inspectors doing business in Arizona.
This is what their investigation is about. It looks to me like this is the foundation for all of the NACHI home inspectors that are being looked at. I have no suggestion on how this one could be defended at this time nor was I given any idea of what a fine would be.
I pleaded with them on behalf of the other NACHI inspectors and I came up with a defense that they will consider depending on each HI?s case. Here it is: you are a new Home inspector waiting for the BTR to finish your paper work you joined NACHI and Listed with them not realizing that NACHI would list you as open for business right away and you contacted NACHI to take your listing off until your state certification is done but NACHI takes time to get your listing off of the sight. This was the best I could do for all of you.
Now for the rest of the topics. There is no Investigation of the BTR at this time with the Attorney General, Maricopa County Attorney, Sheriffs office or City of Phoenix.
I am completely drained right now and I am not going to respond anymore to all of this today. I will try and respond to any further Arizona questions at another time when I get rested up this was very hard work dealing with all of the different Bureaucrats today. I know I must have missed some questions but bare with me I will get them as soon as I can.


Originally Posted By: gbell
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Nice job Michael.


When I first started in 98 I contacted Alan Wells Blaker for insight and any info he would share with a new inspector looking to get into the business. He spoke with me on the phone several times and sent me many of the programs he was using with his business. He was very helpful at the time. I look forward to the day that I meet him so I can thank him in person for the help and inspiration he provided me.


--
Greg Bell
Bell Inspection Service

Originally Posted By: tallen
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Thanks Michael. I am sure getting all that info was a pain in the butt. icon_biggrin.gif


Cheers to you.



I have put the past behind me,


where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.


www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net

30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005

Originally Posted By: dharris
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Great job Mike


It’s a real shame a private independent inspector needs to take a day off to clean up the BS the leadership of this org continues to spew with out all the information.


I’m sure it makes this org look professional to the inspection industry and to the local government when these actions need to be done by a private person that believes in this org



Like I said at the beginning of this subject, it was nothing but far fetched BS, What say ye Mr Farcetta


Originally Posted By: tallen
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When I am wrong I change my mind.



I have put the past behind me,


where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.


www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net

30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005

Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
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Great investigative job. Superb.


This answers all of Nick's questions, for sure. It also appears that things are on the up-and-up. So long as NACHI inspectors listed on the site, who are not certified, notify NACHI to remove them (I would suggest a certified letter, return receipt requested) it looks like the BTR will see the action as a defecsible position.

Based upon the testimonial, it appears as it the gents in question were operating without a license. Whether this is true or not, it raises enough of a question to warrant an investigation of sorts by the BTR.

As to the guy with the school performing parallel inspections; it appears that he is one of the few who is trying to help new inspectors. This is something he should probably be thanked for. This also doesnt appear to be anything new for this fellow, as attested by Greg Bell of Florida.

Arizona clearly has some hoops to jump through, before becoming licensed. Right or wrong, we need to find a path within the existing system, or work to change the system if it is, indeed, broken.

At this juncture, I cant say it is, or is not. From the outside looking in, it seems to be a drawn-out process, but what can you do...

Now, if an abundance of NACHI inspectors, who meet the technical requirements for licensure, but are denied a license, and a pattern can be shown... well, that would be grounds for an investigation. So far, I havent heard that...

How's that, Dandy Dan?


--
Joe Farsetta

Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."