Good heavens… my head is spinning… I have searched and searched - every web site or forum i have found you will find hundreds that say they do use it and there are those that don’t - siting code of course. And same with Home Inspectors - some that report it and others that don’t. Since it is not required by NEC then you would have to refer to the panel manufacturer requirement - so unless I see other wise I will make a note of it during the inspection and then before I publish my report to the client I will look up the manufacturer and see if they require it and only if they do will I site it.
Interesting. Is it code in Canada to put the transformer in the panel? In the U.S. It cannot be located outside and it cannot be in the panel either, you aren’t allowed to put low volt transformers in an electrical panel. In california back in the late 90’s they used to cram them into a two gang box where the chime was mounted. Obviously not a good idea because of the heat generated from the transformer. When I moved to Colorado I saw that they would put them at the furnace, tapped off the line side of the furnace circuit. This always seemed like a better idea. Just food for thought.
Same here in Georgia - 90 percent I find near the furnace as well.
Can not be mounted in such a way that the low voltage side of transformer is contained within the panel. But can be mounted on the side of panel, allowing primary side of transformer wires to be inside the panel (120v side). Secondary side (low voltage) must not be within panel. But it does not need to be at the panel, can be located elsewhere on a box, as long as box has proper cover on it, etc.
You wrote - “Three neutral conductors on one lug (only one allowed).”
but - Neutral and equipment grounding lugs for panelboards are often suitable for two and sometimes three wires. This information is contained on the label affixed within the panelboard or on the packing container of the equipment ground lug. Often the instructions will identify the number of conductors, the size of the conductors, the conductor material, as well as the torque requirements.
A single neutral conductor can be the only conductor in a hole in the bus. EGC’s only can be more then one if the bus is listed for more than one.
There is a differentiation between conductor types. Notice the label will say something like " unused neutral hole can be used for multiple grounding conductors. Otherwise one per hole.
This is the same as the cable in the wall. While not needed there is nothing wrong as long as the amounted of required free conductor exists outside the sheath.
I have never seen a manufacturer requirements for No-Alox to be used in their panel.
Then you have to convince me as to why it is a bad practice…other than a single individuals interpretation of poor workmanship…which is argumentative at best.
Also when you say you are not interested in Codes…then how do you base the “defects” on a specific practice…everything that evolves around safety evolve from a minimum code standard.
When you tell someone that a double tap is wrong…do you explain WHY it is wrong?..and in doing so do you explain why a minimum code standard is derived to aid in preventing such an action…as a minimum safety standard.
JIM…FYI where it says Paul writes…Paul did not write those questions…lol…
THIS is what Paul wrote…lol
Paul writes:
I don’t know if it is a bad practice or not. I’m asking you what text to use. Here is what you previously wrote about it:
If it is “tacky” and a “ROOKIE move”… wouldn’t it be a bad practice? If not, what would you say about it?
I didn’t say I was not interested in codes. See post #1. I’m asking for code references if you know where to find them.
I did say "I’m not just interested in what is code, I’m interested in good and bad practices as well. I’ll also take ancillary commentary. For example, can you explain WHY something should or shouldn’t be done? Many people know codes inside and out, but can’t explain why something is wrong.
No. I need that language. Do you have it for double taps?
Robert Meier writes:
Thanks. Since the PIC is of more three neutral conductors, it is incorrect then? No exceptions? Right?
Correct, one neutral per hole period.
Correct, unless you had parallel neutral conductors and a terminal suitable for more than one connector. Here’s the NEC reference:
where the breaker knock out is missing, it can have a filler plate, like you said, it can also have an unused breaker too.
Missing panel screw, I’d add the replacement should be a proper screw for dead front covers (blunt tipped)
You might add defects like:
- wires that look brown or black from excessive heat/overloading
- strands of conductor cut to make a wire fit (wire to large a gage)
Well I think you know I have language for just about anything and I also have been explaining practices on here since 2005. So with that said, since I was not asked directly… I will just leave the members to add to it and if anyone needs clarity (privately) then they know how to contact me.
Good luck fella…I think you will get a lot of good feedback here as their are some great Electricians who now frequent the forum.
Hey guys and gals. I wanted to thank Nick, and the electrical contractors for building this panel for my realtor rally. I used it as a game for them, and the turn out was phenomenal. Nick and his crew have helped me every step of the way from day one in my business. Hats off to these guys!
I would recommend that you guys borrow this unit and try it out.
I built two of them.
After we finish with all the comments on this thread, I’ll build more and include doorbell transformers.