Help Please (what else)

One question, among others is, what do you call all the neutrals twisted together under the red lug? From there, if you could enlighten me about what else is going on in the pics, I would appreciate it. Thanks


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This is a guess, since not there…

It appears that someone has ‘double tapped’ the lugs.

Intentions? Thinking out loud? They want to feed something with two hots? Maybe another downstream panel, since that type of connection, seems to not protect those tiny wires.

So it might be both “double tap” and “improperly protected conductors”.



Hard to tell from the pictures. Is one of those panels the service equipment?

Also hard to tell, but it almost looks like one of the neutral wires is aluminum.

“what do you call all the neutrals twisted together under the red lug?” - Simple answer - a mess that needs to be repaired by a licensed electrician. It almost appears as those white wires are hot neutral wires and are improperly marked. My guess is they are hot feeds.

The wires on the other side of the panel are also improperly tapped.

Agreed. No need to micro-analyze this one.

AGREED. Just nice to explain/document to the homeowner the problem, so they see the need to defer this to a qualified electrician.

Side Note: I’ve had ‘fixes’ where the inspector (during a trench inspection) took me, the home owner, and gave direct instructions on why past work done [not by me] had to be ‘fixed’ before he would close out the current work’s permit. Home owners do appreciate when explained why they have to spend more money. :smiley:


Something like this comes to mind. . .

The electrical panel and its components had numerous deficiencies that were part of the original installation or post modifications that are contrary to nationally recognized standards. This indicates that the electrical system was not installed or modified by a qualified electrician and other latent defects may exist that were not discovered by our inspection as generalists.

Man…where do you start…so in thinking I just wont…with the improper taps, knock outs missing, conductors improperly protected by OCPD’s and so on…just better off to DEFER and the electrician can clean up the mess…WE HOPE !

I agree. That is exactly what I was thinking earlier when I first saw this post.
Differ the whole mess to a pro!

I did, but I was hoping to get some info from the NACHI experts (Paul, Speedy, Jeff etc.) in plain home inspector language. Of the 2 panels, the one on the left is the main. Thanks

No brainer on the DEFER.

Your left, or mine.
Kinda looks like the one on the right is the main panel with disconnect.
Where are the service entrance conductors.

Is that a clothes closet?


 "After careful viewing of this electrical equipment, I have determined it should be viewed and evaluated by a Licensed Electrical Contractor. The potential problems within these enclosures are beyond the scope of this inspection and raise a potential hazard that should be reviewed by a qualified electrical expert."

lol…WHAT…to long of a statement…lol

I didn’t mean words on how to defer…I already took care of that. I meant words on some problems you see in the pics. I usually see the normal or common problems in panels, but this one has things that I have never seen.

Ok…in my original statement I stated…:

improper taps, knock outs missing, conductors improperly protected by OCPD’s and so on…just better off to DEFER and the electrician can clean up the mess…WE HOPE !”

I am sure we all coudl look at it much closer and come up with many more…like for example the LACK of what I can see as a properly sized main OCPD…feeding the other panel…just looks HOKEY to me…better to name some issues and say something about the layout is not typical of a correctly installed service panel and move on.

lol…looks to me like they are feeding the right panel with "Parallel " conductors…and then it feeds the left panel…I think from the looks of it…anyway I know those lugs are not made for that type of installation…so their is another one for ya…


  1. No fittings securing the cable to the enclosure - 312.5© (both enclosures)
  2. Improper fusing of conductors - secondary panel - 240.4
  3. Improper identification of conductors - 200.7©
  4. Improper bending radius of conductors 312.6 -being picky
  5. Improper securing of overcurrent device - 408.36(F)
  6. Improper numbe of conductors per termination - 110.14(A)
  7. Improper support of conductors - 334.30
  8. Hard to tell - Equipment ground conductor seems to be missing 250.4(A)(3)

lol…yeah but dont quote the code numbers to em…but Pierre hooked for up in more detail…thanks Pierre…I was too lazy to quote them…thehehe

Again one of my bigger concerns is it appears the panel on the RIGHT is the main OCPD for the one on the left…and it appears to be FED with multiple 10 AWG or smaller conductors…heck I can’t tell…

I know that HIs are not suppose to quote code. I posted it this way so he could look them up and maybe understand a little more.

I agree this may not be what we thought it was, meaning which panel supplies which panel.
Next time, don’t be so lazy, this way I would not have to spend my time helping :wink:

lol…Pierre…you funny man…we LOVE your help and you are QUITE good at it my friend…I am always lazy my brother…:slight_smile:

Yeah…i agree…I was just lazy…CODE is the BEST way to learn it and posting it with an explanation is always a GOOD learning experience…

Thanks brother…:slight_smile:

thank you very much guys!!!