A home built in 1952. Homeowner recently spent $7,000+ to install an interior perimeter floor drain system with sump pump because of water leaking through a horizontal crack. The appraiser for the new buyer flagged the crack as a structural problem and I was called to evaluate the issue. Turns out the horizontal crack was a cold joint about 2 foot from top, all the way around the foundation. The wall structure was fine, walls were straight and no signs of shoving. The water seeping through the cold joint was the result of poor surface grading and downspouts discharging next to the foundation. Four downspout extensions and simple grading in one small area was all that was needed.
Very common in old homes where the concrete was mixed on the back of a tractor and the frequently took two days to make the pour.
I frequently found they used the Boards from the foundation pour as Roof boards .
I am not a lover of inside water proofing never a good way to do it.
I would suggest Waterproofing the Exterior of the foundation too.
This way their Inside System could be eliminated if Waterproofed by a professional like Mark Anderson, aka John Bubber…
Thanks for the photos Randy
Thanks for the good words Mr D
If there was NO crack(s) then it would not have leaked, therefore imo the problem IS the crack. The crack,defect is STILL open, can most certainly leak so my itty bitty 2 lousy cents would have recommended to homeowner to, dig it down that 2’ and waterproof it (if that/those were the only cracks). Sometimes an existing crack(s) will widen.
Just like a roof, if there is an opening, a hole say…if the valley then the roof leaks due-to/because of, the hole, not because the angle,slope of the roof. Its an existing defect,needs to be fixed correctly. Ya wouldn’t recommend raising the roof to give it a better,higher slope, right.
Have told some homeowners if they-themselves want to try/do this crap (grading and praying) then by all means go right ahead.wouldn’t sell it without waterproofing the actual problems though or, at least disclose the problems/defects. And id truly hope they don’t have as much/little leakage as before but at some point its going to leak again regardless of the grade. have seen it waay too many times over a few decades.
Have seen some builders own-houses where THEY poured concrete against the bsmt wall about 2’ deep and 1’ or so wide(yes they dug down about 2’ x 1’ wide in area where it leaked) THEN, raised and sloped the grade…still leaked and some cracks widened.
Often read,see,hear from some who, no doubt at all imo, say-claim that raising and sloping the grade and longer downspout ext’s stops 80%-90% of all leaky basements, thats absolute trash.
Here, house was sold…buyer told leaky basement was supposedly fixed by raising and sloping the grade…see for yourselves if that worked
$7,000 for another PITIFUL INCOMPETENT inside system…another homeowner duped/bullshtted outta alot of money.
Love those photos man, keep em coming please and…do you have any of that house of the lousy,stoooooopid inside system/the floor?
Sorry for the long post.
Here is where John should shine…not rant IMO.
Remember, sub drainage systems are meant to be maintained!!!
A sub drainage system on average lasts 25 to 40 years. Dependent upon the area.
That cold joint is under lateral loading being 2 feet under grade. The freeze thaw cycles and prolonged periods are the most damaging.
The frost zone and the soils makeup will relate to how much loading it is under.
Personally thinking out load, ONE: I feel the sub drainage is old and needs cleaning of maintenance and poseable a new complete system…
Secondly; 2’ feet is the most precarious depth from what I have observed in lateral foundation cracks. They eventually separate from what I have seem over the decades.
I would be writing it up. The wording is dependent upon situation of course.
Is the downspout directly tired to the sub drainage Randy ?
If so I recommend it be removed at once. A lateral downspout extension placed on the bottom and aimed 4’ away from the foundation.
I am no fan of cold joints of any size BUT not all are an issue.
In your image the concrete poor on the bottom did not allow the emulsified components, air entrained for one, of the chemicals in the mix to bond or unify the way they would if the lower portion would have been more liquid or gelatinous in nature.
SUSPECT: It also appears by color or shading the lower concrete pour started its curing process to a point that would not allow the next poor to uniquely bond and become essentially a monolithic wall. Like stacking brick with a thin masonry bond might be a descriptive.
The PSI and other information from the driver would have been a good injection for the report. JobseeIt would have been an idea.
Sorry for the marketing. I can’t help myself:-)
I have seen A cold joint run the full course of the foundation.
Pour job onsite material assessment.
It is not hard to know to the cubic yard how much concrete you will need nor is it hard to set up with the provider’s (suppliers) an emergency back up plain IF you are being approximate in your measurements
LIMITATIONS: The foundation was 50% visible. ( if that was the case.)
CONDITION: A cold joint runs the perimeter of the foundation roughly 24" down from the top of the foundation. Because of water leaking through a horizontal crack an interior sub drainage system was installed. This type of system are good for specific types of hydro-static pressure occurrence “under the floor slab” but do not entirely remove the lateral loading from the exterior. Exterior evacuation, drainage or water control is always the best method to use. Before it can go under the footing, footer, pad or pier.
SUSPECT: The cold joints is allowing water infiltration and will become a larger issue over time.
SUSPECT: The sub drainage system is partially blocked.
RECOMMEND: The sub drainage system be inspected using a bore-scope and be recorded.
If the condition proves to be compromised:
RECOMMEND: An exterior drainage system be installed.
1: The foundation be exposed: any damage to the exterior be repaired.
2: Upon completion of repairs the exterior of the foundation be warped with a water proof membrane IE: like blue skin, Delta moisture management and DELTA®-MS is a highly effective foundation protection system, based on a uniquely shaped air-gap membrane. It reliably keeps ground moisture away from the foundation wall – a key factor in achieving a permanently dry basement.
3: back fill: The void can be back filled with 3/4" washed gravel or other clean arrogate suited for that job.
3a> Pre back fill staging: all loam be covered with geo fabric to prohibit the loam from invading the gravel over time.
3b: The top portion of aggregate be covered with geofabric several inches before the top to allow the top dressing to be loam ad sod or other materials the client so desires.
Just my 2 cents.
Robert,i did shine…like Vega in constellation Lyra, you missed it thats all.
Just tried to keep it shorter as Randy knows where i’m coming from.
There’s no mystery,like Mr Duffy, i would have recommended to waterproof that crack and any others. I mean, around,little less than 2’ deep, thats nothing!!
Just wondering if anything else was said/added about the actual problems here, to homeowner. :mrgreen:
Just another example of an INTERIOR SYSTEM COMPANY either NOT wanting to be HONEST on the actual problems and correct fix (wants the job and will say anything to homeowners to get it) OR, incompetence.
They profess to be HONEST and experienced experts yet never seem to come to the conclusion that ONLY exterior waterproofing done correctly would have sealed the exterior cracks/joints etc, aka… EXISTING exterior DEFECTS.
SHINE on you crazy Diamond/Pink Floyd http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksd6L8K13G4
“Sub drained system is partially blocked”
Whether the inside system bllllsht is blocked OR the exterior tiles are blocked is NOT NOT NOT ‘why’ water is getting into the basement!
Jesus Christmas people, wake…up!
Dang I’m trrrrrying to HELP but some gotta wake up.
Not trying to screw anyone over or make anyone look like a dork BUTT dang people, on this subject, many are wrong, been wrong and are screwing over sellers/buyers, yes… you are.
And adding 1,000’ long downspout extensions is NOT why the basement leaks. Its NOT the grade folks. Go ahead and play with it all ya’s like but its not WHY basements really leak, sheeesh!
How’s the GRADE look here, eyeball the first picture here, click each individual photo to ENLARGE so ummmm, ya can see better loool
Did ya look or are you afraid your thoughts about the grade is wrong?
They even tarred along the stupid edge of driveway and house.
See the GRADE here, Rochester Michigan
What was the problem?
It wasn’t the dumb grade. Wasn’t gutters, wasn’t attaching a 900’ long downspout extension
How LONG is this downspout extension??? Is it looong enough for ya’s? loool
The homeowner, an 80+ yr old woman was INCOMPETENTLY told to PAY and have someone RE-----ROUTE the dumb azz back downspout and, make it longer…and she/they did! Still leaked.
Here are the rest of that home’s job photos and WHY it leaked!!!
Eh, if you own a house and it leaks and can’t, don’t want to or don’t know how to FIND/determine your actual problem and its solution and your NOT selling the dang house, then go ahead and FART around with your grade, fine!!!
You can light the dang house on fire if ya like, what do i care. (plus it makes for some entertaining Tv on duh news)
I fully freakin understand some do not have the MONEY to fix whatever the actual/correct solution turns out to be…such as… tuckpointing need or some exterior waterproofing etc, nobody understands THIS better than Bubbaman!!!
But for NON experts, HI’s or realtors etc to tell buyers/sellers to raise and slope the dumb az grade and add one mile long downspout extensions and, by doing THAT, it will fix/solve 80%-90% whatever percent of ALL leaky basements is BULLLLL—shtt, incompetent, negligent.