home-made garage

Originally Posted By: srowe
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I did my first mobile home today, reluctantly.


I came across a garage that appears to have been made by the renter. (Permits indicate a shed). Well this shed is attached to the house and houses their truck.

Anyway, appears the trusses were modified by "sistering" in some 2x4's held by 3 nails each. They have some 6x6 posts that sit on the concrete that support the ceiling joists. The last pic is how he cut modified the truss so it didn't interfere with the door.

I need the opinions of some experts (not me)
![](upload://1LDX5zpwXsCDucYDQ8MPrtRm69J.jpeg)




Originally Posted By: tallen
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Structural Engineer! icon_eek.gif



I have put the past behind me,


where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.


www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net

30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005

Originally Posted By: jpope
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There are several issues that could be addressed as to the “construction” practices used by the installer of this “addition.”


Your recommendations should be (1) Recommend evaluation by a licensed (certified) structural engineer and (2) Recommend consulting the local building department for appropriate permits and inspection records.

As for the construction itself ![eusa_doh.gif](upload://has2a0g32D0AAlDjAwVcrg3HnhX.gif) . The "sistered" extensions (IMHO) aren't so much the issue as the trusses appear to be supported in the proper location , however, the supports don't look to be sufficient for their load. What really catches my attention is the modified truss at the garage door. Especially considering that it appears to be the last truss on that end of the garage

I'm no engineer, but I'd say that a half stick of dynamite, placed precisely in the right location, should do the trick


--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: jmertins
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YIKES!!! SCARY!!! I don’t think it exactly follows the Dade building codes…I hope that thing is not coastal, we are only 59 days away from Hurricane season.



John


Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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Or you can just wait for the next hurricane, and let the problem resolve itself


There is nothing about that that looks correct and the other guys are correct about a P.E. evaluation.

Regards

Gerry


--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466

Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com

"Education is a journey, not a destination"

Originally Posted By: Susan
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Hi Shawn,


Wow...that's a prize find!! Definite S. E. evaluation. Major problems....overspan beams, inadequate support, altered trusses etc.

Just curious...what type of floor was in there and how did they attach to the house?

Sue


Originally Posted By: lfranklin
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I hope you hid this person hammer while you were there


Originally Posted By: srowe
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floor was concrete slab


attached to the house at the rear of the garage (modified truss as not to block the door of course) with a ridge (layed over the edge of existing roof). Check out the left over tube of roofing cement. (This was not added as a prop ![icon_eek.gif](upload://yuxgmvDDEGIQPAyP9sRnK0D0CCY.gif) )




Originally Posted By: roconnor
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Look at the quote below my signature … icon_cool.gif



Robert O’Connor, PE


Eagle Engineering ?


Eagle Eye Inspections ?


NACHI Education Committee


I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
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Picture #1. I don’t see trusses. I see scabbed rafters.


Picture #2. Looks like he cut ledgers into the posts to support the roof.


Picture #3. Poorly supported ceiling joist & king post on a poor excuse for a header.


I don't see anything that I would consider trusses in these picture. For some good truss reference material go here.

http://www.cwc.ca/design/wood_systems/trusses/

I NEVER recommend structural engineers anymore. The few times that I did, I got burned. They came out, said "Yup, you got a problem. Get a ______ Contractor to take care of it." Took their money and left.



NOW, I recommend the following:


Here's the problems I see.



#1. etc


#2. etc.


I recommend that a qualified framing contractor (who utilizes the services of a licensed engineer to design repairs) be contacted to design any necessary repairs, estimate costs and repair as necessary.


Substitute appropriate contractor type as necessary.

IF they follow the recommendation, it get's them straight to the source of a repair while ensuring that an engineer is involved in designing the repair, instead of "Jim (in deference to our Joes), the framing guy down the street".


--
Erby Crofutt
B4U Close Home Inspections
Georgetown, Kentucky

www.b4uclose.com

Originally Posted By: roconnor
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Erby … looks like the outside rafters pieces in photo #1 are scabbed onto the top chord extension … in photo #2 ya can just see the door on the right … icon_wink.gif


I do agree that for simple stuff just referring to a framing contractor for repair is reasonable. But it doesn't sound like those are very good engineers if they dont give the clients a letter or sketch advising what needs to be done.

Looks like homemade trusses over the main garage area ... was that your thinking Shawn?


--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
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to get it fixed.


IF they follow the recommendation, it get's them straight to the source of a repair while ensuring that an engineer is involved in designing the repair.

I don't want to cut out the engineering process, but face it, some of these things have been seen many thousands of times by engineers and they just pull out the same design for the same repair time after time.


--
Erby Crofutt
B4U Close Home Inspections
Georgetown, Kentucky

www.b4uclose.com

Originally Posted By: roconnor
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IMHO for something that clearly just needs a simple fix refer to a qualified contractor, and for something that needs an evaluation or more refer to a qualified engineer.


For things in between where work needs to be done that is not too complicated, but it's not a simple fix, it's a toss up sometimes. Some contractors are good, and will use an engineer for evaluations and design, and you get an adequate repair for exactly what you need. But they may mark up the engineers fees so the client ends up paying more. Other contractors are not so good, and ya may be charged for more than you really need ... or they may not really understand all of the problems so ya may just get a partial fix. I come across both types, and it really is hit or miss.

In general I think it's better for the client/owner to just hire an engineer directly for anything beyond just a simple fix. They can do the evaluation right off the bat to tell you exactly what needs to be done if there really is a problem, and give you sketches/plans if work is needed. Then the client/owner can get competitive contractor prices on the work, without cutting corners or over doing things ... and you are comparing apples to apples on the prices.

I have an appointment next weekend to look at a house that has some framing problems. They got contractor prices for repairs that varied widely, and they are not sure if the low prices are missing things or if the high prices are overcharging or including extra stuff that they may not really need.

The trick is not to refer to an engineer for simple fixes, and to find a good engineer to work with who will give the client a description and/or sketches/plans for any required repairs ... and not hand that off for a contractor to do. They really shouldn't be doing that anyway.

Just my 2-nickles as an engineer also ... ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)


--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

Originally Posted By: hgordon
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Disagree with Erby!! The issue that you (ED) have is not that you made the wrong call, it was that the seller or buyer hired a bad Engineer.


I agree with Robert in that if the repair does not have "structural" implications, then why would you suggest an Engineer. But the reverse also applies...if it is a structural problem, as is the case in your photos, call for the engineer.

One last point, I always follow my recommendation for a structural engineer with:
"All related repairs to follow engineers drawing by certified/licensed contractor. In all cases comply with local or state permitting requirements. NOTE: Provide verifiable documentation and receipts for the repairs."


--
Harvey Gordon
SE Florida NACHI Chapter - President
hgordon@fl.nachi.org

Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.







Erby Crofutt


B4U Close Home Inspections


Georgetown, Kentucky



www.b4uclose.com

Originally Posted By: hgordon
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Erby, sorry to put a monkey wrench in your posting, but I am by far not an engineer! I believe Robert is however.


As you can see now, it is not about the enumeration but about protecting the Buyer.

If after the repair is done (without the advise of a Engineer) and the deal goes through, the concern and future faults and responsibilities will fall squarely on the shoulders (no pun intended, but if the show fits...) of our client.

This could not only become a future safety concern if the work was not originally done properly (no question here), but future resale and safety may become issues if the repairs are not done properly. That would mean that at resale our buyer would need to bring it to code, and/or tear it down.

I believe that your "not calling" for a structural engineer would place your client in various unfavorable positions in the future. This just because you want to save the buyer or seller the $300 for a Engineers Inspection.

I want to focus on calling what I see, and let the "experts" do their jobs.

Don't forget if, during the Engineers Inspection, it is determined that the structure is UNSAFE and the previous work was not done to Code and without a Permit, you become the hero to your client as opposed to the possibility of a zero if the issue goes unresolved and surfaces at resale.

Harvey


--
Harvey Gordon
SE Florida NACHI Chapter - President
hgordon@fl.nachi.org

Originally Posted By: roconnor
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hgordon wrote:
... I am by far not an engineer! I believe Robert is however.

Guilty as charged ... ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif) ... but I did state that, so everyone would know where I was coming from ...

ecrofutt wrote:
Well, I suppose if I was an Engineer like Robert ... I to would be defending the Engineering profession like they are.

Yes, I do admit I will defend my profession in general. But I am also an HI and instructor, and I did criticize the engineers you talked about for not at least giving the client a letter report ... even for a simple problem that maybe didn't really need an engineer's evaluation. In that case I would have at least wrote a letter, and also pulled you over on the side or talked to you to advise that was not a case I really needed to be called in on.

However, my real point was that I think a client is better served by going directly to an independent engineer for anything beyond a fairly simple repair. Not only will the client have a professional who truely represents their interests, but also consider that many contractors will pocket the money for an engineer, and just wing it. I don't think the client is well served in that case.

Again, just my 2-nickles as an engineer also ...


--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Dang Harvey. You need to quit throwing those Monkey Wrenches. They Hurt.


![](upload://vHykVFgkEsnAdF4pXtTTF1xkFE1.jpeg)

I'd appreciate it if you'd throw a marshmallow bunny or something soft next time.



My mistake. I knew Robert was. He's very upfront and open about it and a great source for us on NACHI even if we don't always agree.

All I could find on your's at the time was from a google of
"harvey gordon" engineer home inspection

Which returned.

View topic - FLORIDA INSPECTORS - Time to ACT!!! - Nat'l Assoc. of ...
... Harvey Gordon SE Fla NACHI Chapter President ... 15 year veteran inspectors (1 a licensed
engineer with 10 ... teacher before getting into the home inspection business ...
www.nachi.org/ bbsystem/viewtopic.php?t=466&view=next - 90k - Cached - Similar pages

Guess I should have tried harder to follow the link and view the full context.


--
Erby Crofutt
B4U Close Home Inspections
Georgetown, Kentucky

www.b4uclose.com

Originally Posted By: hgordon
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icon_lol.gif


Too Funny!


Erby, your a nut!




Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
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Well, just how do you mean that, Harvey.


![](upload://1HPpWXpDCUyT7Ww69sDmFRu81uX.jpeg) or or


--
Erby Crofutt
B4U Close Home Inspections
Georgetown, Kentucky

www.b4uclose.com