Inspection today on a manufactured home. The ITE electric panel is next to the headboard in the master bedroom. When I opened it, found what looks like it got a little warm at the main connection. While checking the Heat, I checked, the main lug was at 170°F. There’s also a double tap on a 40-amp breaker, so was going to refer to an electrician anyway.
How many amps was this service?
150 amps - built and installed in 1981. The HVAC is a package unit and the label calls for a minimum 50amp breaker, which it is.
That alone would not cause a concern for me, but other factors could cause me to include my observation, such as: Could you hear anything? I was able to hear arcing, which helped me locate an issue in my meter can. Also, any evidence of scorching? These are anomalies I see, but I was not there. They could be nothing.
4 Likes
You don’t think the high temp of the lug is a concern, with the melted plastic? It got to 175° and was hot to touch (the insulated wire, not the lug! When HVAC was off, the lug was at 140. Regardless, they double-tapped the water heater circuit, so I was calling it out anyway…No, I didn’t hear anything and the only discoloration, I think may be grease at the lug.
Melted plastic is always a concern and I will always write hard on that because evidence of overheating or arcing is a significant problem.
And I can concede the temp is higher than what is typical. So if I have elevated temps and visible indicators of overheating then I consider this a significant defect.
So you have melted plastic in this panel? If so, I would add some urgency to my narrative.
1 Like
One thing that can be an advantage in FL is that pretty much every new home needs a 4-Point report so they can get insurance. I raised my prices a little and include that with my inspection. With this, I marked the electrical UNSATISFACTORY, almost guaranteeing they cannot insure the home without repairs, some incentive for the seller to take notice. Just call me a Deal Breaker!
1 Like
It really shouldn’t be more than about 80 degrees over ambient. That said, it is Florida, it is August, it is probably 90 degrees in there but it’s still damn hot. The fact that one lug is showing heat while the other is no where near should also give pause.
I would definitely be ringing the alarm bell to get an electrician in there ASAP. Something isn’t right and bad things happen when that’s the case.
3 Likes
Morning, Andrew. Hope to find you well.
Observation:
Double lugging.
Mixed breakers/OCPD’s. GE breaker.
1 breaker in the off position on the top right 20 amp tandem breaker.
Recommend a licensed electrical contractor further evaluate and improve any defects and deficiencies. Act upon any recommendations therein.
I-T-E stands for Inverse Time Element.
to I.T.E. Imperial, then later to BBC for the Brown Boveri Corporation and later when merged with Asea to ABB for Asea Brown Boveri.
ITE was purchased by Gould in 1976. The purchase by Siemens USA from Gould was 25 years ago (1983) and it has been Siemens ever since.
Robert, thanks for the history - I was aware of some, but had no idea what ITE stood for! OOPS - the off breaker was my fault when removing the front. It had been framed in by a well-intentioned home owner, so I had to remove the screws, then pull the cover out and slide to the left to get it out… didn’t realize I had hit the breaker until i went to replace the front!
Pretty much my recommendation to the buyer. As this is a manufactured home, I try to really emphasize any remote possibility of a fire danger even more so…
2 Likes
You are welcome. My pleasure.
I suspect the panel was modified and damaged. Look at the main breaker and the enclosure. They do not line up. As well it appears plastic sleeve was used above the main breaker. It does not fit properly and is warped.
No modifying breaker panels or enclosures.
1 Like
It’s a safe bet to say that it simply needs to be re-torqued. The guys who like to fix things as they do inspections would probably tighten the lug and not mention it the report. It would take a lot less time and effort to tighten the lug than to do most of the repairs that inspectors like to do.
Aren’t you supposed to torque the main lugs at ambient? Torqueing A 170 degree main lug would probably loosen if it started behaving properly and came down near to ambient.
The only reason I sorta know this is when we built out the Honduras factory, our master electricians wanted all the gear inside(in the AC) for a day before anything got torqued. Sitting in a container in Honduras meant everything coming in the door took gloves to handle. Metal stuff was 140+
1 Like
𝗬𝗲𝘀. It should be done at ambient temperature. The temperature will drop fast when the main is turned off. Putting a wrench on the lug will hasten the lug’s cooling.
I don’t make any repairs during an inspection, but a lot of inspectors like to repair or replace things as they inspect (even though the house doesn’t belong to them or to their buyer clients).
1 Like
I don’t make any repairs either. And this would have been good - would have to have the PoCo cut power or pull the meter to kill power. That’s a lot more than a home inspection. Also, what if it’s NOT just “needing re-torqued” and a few weeks later, the mobile home burns to the ground…i don’t think I have enough insurance coverage to cover that…
3 Likes
Who are these inspectors?
2 Likes
There’s no need to cut the power. I always did maintenance and service changes live.
They are easy enough to find. All you need to do is to read through this forum and other home inspector forums. Do a search for “Panel screws” and you’ll find a few of them. I have often asked where they draw the line.
I staunchly advocate against making any alterations to a house because we don’t own the houses that we inspect, and our clients don’t own the houses we inspect in most instances.
2 Likes
I have not encountered any in my 30 years at this gig that make simple repairs like you are indicating. I’m sure we have some, but they are not all that common in my part of the country. As for panel screws, in some cases, that could be considered self-preservation!
3 Likes