Incorporating

Originally Posted By: jremas
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Gentlemen & Ladies alike, What are your thoughts on incorporating your business? Advantages and disadvantages? Please share all the information you may have. Good, bad and indifferent.






Jeff Remas
REMAS Inspections, Inc.
Northeastern PA & the Poconos
www.NEPAinspector.com

570-362-1598

Originally Posted By: lwedige
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I have an s corp. The inspection business is a dba of the corporation. Profits and losses are transfered to my personal return. The salary I draw is subject to 15% social security, but I leave most of the profits to be paid as dividends. No social security, no self employment taxes. In Texas we are required to pay a 4% franchise tax on corporate profits. Sure beats 15%.


Larry


Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Jeff,


The one big advantage that incorporation offers is personal protection from the company liability. If you have accumulated any personal wealth you could easily lose it with one lawsuit.

Joe Myers


Originally Posted By: jhagarty
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DELETED



Joseph Hagarty


HouseMaster / Main Line, PA
joseph.hagarty@housemaster.com
www.householdinspector.com

Phone: 610-399-9864
Fax : 610-399-9865

HouseMaster. Home inspections. Done right.

Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
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My understanding is that incorporating does nothing to help save personal assets in the event of a lawsuit. The inspector gets sued, and the corporation gets sued. The inspector made the error or omission, and is therefore on the hook, personally, for the liability. Get a good E&O policy. I found this out after I had already incorporated. I too am an s-corp.


Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Joe F.


I am not sure about your laws there in NY but here in PA the person that made the error in the case of the corporatoin is only liable as an employee of the corporation. Meaning that they could only go after the assests of the corporation, not their personal property.

While it is my understanding that it is possible for them to go after you personally as an officer or an employee of the corporation it is highly unlikely except in cases of severe negligence.

In either case if you accumulated any amount of wealth you should be talking to an attorney to find legal methods of protecting that wealth.

Joe Myers


Originally Posted By: mrose
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Jeff,


Here is some ifo from Georgia posted on an associates web page www.collom.com.



Selecting a Business Type






Wow. So, you really are serious about launching a new business. Congratulations. You are embarking on quite a journey.

We cannot give you everything you will need to start a business, but we can try. If at anytime you have a question that needs an answer, feel free to e-mail us. We are here to help. But please bear this in mind, any advice we offer is merely an opinion. Opinions are like noses - we all have one. We do not represent ourselves as lawyers or business consultants. We are merely a private inspection firm trying to make it easier for you to start your own firm. You will have to do the research and make your own decisions. We will give you the benefit of our experience. Hopefully you can get were you want faster by building upon our experience. In exchange we simply ask that you help others struggling to walk down the same path as you.

This web page will present a discussion of 5 business types. We will discuss the pros and cons of each type. Most of this discussion will center upon operating a business in Georgia, although most of the information is useful no matter where you live in the United States. This page will also provide links for you to investigate. If you discover useful information in your internet travels, please let us know so we can make it available to others.

There are 5 basic business types Sole Proprietorship, General Partnership, Limited Partnership, Corporation and Limited Liability Company. Each business type is controlled at different levels, has different degrees of liability, different methods of taxation, and differing administration requirements. The first business type for discussion is the Sole Proprietorship.





Sole Proprietorship
A sole proprietorship business entity is the most common. There is very little to be done to be a sole proprietor. Basically you only have to purchase a business license in the city or county within which you reside. If you live within city limits, you must file your business with the city - otherwise, file with the county. Business licenses are usually around $25 per year.

If you want to establish your business in a name other than your own, you must file as a DBA (doing business as). There are additional annual fees associated with being a DBA. The purpose of the filing is to protect the public from unsrupulous business owners who do bad business and then disappear. Atleast, that's our opinion. Of course, you plan to be around a long time. So filing won't bother you a bit.

The individual who directs the affairs of the sole proprietorship is the sole proprietor - you. The sole proprietor also is personally responsible for all the acts of the business. Your personal assets are at risk from all business dealings. Taxes are reported on the sole proprietors personal tax forms. There are no recordkeeping requirements on a sole proprietorship although it is wise to keep an accurate account of all business financial dealings. State registration is not required.

The sole proprietorship is the simplest form of business to begin and maintain. It also carries the most personal liability. The general partnership is the next type of business we will discuss.





General Partnership
The general partnership business entity is the result of two or more persons who start a business as co-owners. A Partnership Agreement is signed by all partners so that everyone involved knows what is expected of the partnership. A general partnership is similar to a sole proprietorship except there are two or more persons involved. All partners share in unlimited liability with their personal assets on the line. Again, business licenses must be obtained. A business name must also be selected - since all partners will not have the same name. Profits and taxes are shared according to the partnership agreement. The partnership agreement also defines the controlling partner to avoid management decision devisions. Taxes once again "pass-thru" to each partners personal tax return. State registration is not required.

A general partnership is much more complex than a sole proprietorship. Liability is still high. The next business type to discuss is the limited partnership.





Limited Partnership
A partnership agreement is also required for a limited partnership business entity. In a limited partnership there are general and limited partners. The general partners are personally liable for all business dealings. The limited partners share in the profit but are not personlly liable for the business. Limited partners participate in controlling the business. The general partners may bind the partnership to perform while the limited partners may not. To limit liablity, many limited parnterships have a corporation as the general partner. Taxes pass-thru to each partners personal tax statement. Limited partnerships must file with the state but recordkeeping requirements are minimal.

The limited partnership is more complex than both the sole proprietorship and the general partnership. Liability is high for general partners but nonexistant for limited partners. The next business type is the corporation.





Corporation
A corporation is a separate legal entity - just like being a separate person. Unlike a person, a corporation exists forever. A corporation must be formally dissolved to end it's existance.

A corporation is composed of shareholders, directors and officers. The shareholders control the activity of the corporation. Directors are hired by the shareholders. The directors hire officers. The officers conduct the daily business of the corporation. One person may be shareholder, directors and officers of the corporation.

The best reason to incorporate is to enjoy the limited liabilty. The corporation is liable for it's activities, not the shareholders or officers of the corporation. Personal assets are also protected under a corporation.

It is very, very, important to keep personal and business finances separate under this type of business. For that reason it is paramount to have a business checking account.

Corporations are subject to double taxation unless a "chapter S" status is filed with the Internal Revenue Service (IRS). Double taxation means that the corporation is taxed and then the persons who are paid by the corporation are taxed again. S corportions are not taxed. The tax liability passes thru to those who are paid by the corporation. Most small corporations quality for S status. Most large corporations do not.

There is a fair amount of recordkeeping and tax filing associated with a corporation. Limited liability is certainly a strong consideration here. If you file your own taxes and don't mind dealing with the government, this may be the best way to go. Many people hire an accountant and a lawyer to setup and maintain a corporation - but the liability for their decisions still rests on the corporation. There is also the high cost of paying a lawyer and accountant. We prefer to maintain our own records. It takes very little time and the government is very helpful when asked for advice.

Our costs associated with creating our corporation are as follows:

Secretary of State Articles of Incorporation filing $60
Secretary of State Corporate Registration $15
Required Corporate Organization Advertising in Legal Organ $40
Corporate Seal $20
Stock Certificates $20
Stock Seal $20
Business License (City of Lawrenceville) $25
Total $200


Annual fees are the city business license of $25 and corporate registration of $15.





Limited Liability Company (LLC)
A LLC is a cross between a partnership and a corporation. An LLC provides pass through taxation and limited liability. An LLC is owned by one or more "members". An LLC is perpetual - just as a corporation. Just as a corporation, articles must be filed with the state. Unlike a corporation, an LLC must have an operating agreement - like a partnership. Record keeping requirements are similar to a corporation. An LLC must choose to be taxed as a corporation or a partnership. Members risk their investment capital in the LLC and share profits. The costs associated with forming an LLC are similar to forming a corporation.





Conclusion
There are 5 types of business entities. The sole proprietorship is the simplest and most cost effective to form but carries the most liability. Partnerships are formed by two or more people, have more extensive recordkeeping requirements and still encounter liability. Limited liabilty companies (LLC) are a cross between partnerships and corportions. LLC's have less liability, have two or more members and extensive recordkeeping requirements. Chapter S corporations have extensive recordkeeping requirements (like LLC's), the least amount of liability, and enjoy the least amount of taxation. For our money - a corporation was the way to go.

If you would like to obtain extensive online information about state business filing procedures, forming a corporation in Georgia, registering a corporate name online, or obtain corporate forms - visit the Secretary of State corporations division .

The Small Business Administration also has a lot of useful online information.

If you would like a mentor relationship with a retired executive, contact the Service Corps of Retired Executives (SCORE). SCORE has business seminars for entrepreneurs for a modest fee. They also provide free phone, e-mail or office consultations. They have an excellent library and will guide you through developing a business plan, obtaining business financing, tax filings, recordkeeping, etc. SCORE is a very impressive resource.

Several of you have asked about books on forming your business. We used, "How to Form a Corporation, LLC, or Partnership in Georgia" to form our corporation without incuring lawyer fees. The author is W. Dean Brown. The book is published by the Consumer Corporation. The Consumer Corporation can be contacted through 1-800-677-2462.





We hope this article was beneficial to you. If you have any questions, please feel free to e-mail us.


--
Mike Rose
Cornerstone Home Inspection Co. LLC
Lawrenceville, GA

www.cornerstonehomeinspect.com

Originally Posted By: evandeven
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Being incorporated may not protect your personal assets. I was involved in a situation where the client was an attorney and knew how to manipulate the legal system.


The judge would not separate the individual from the corporation stating that he is the owner and the only employee, therefore he is responsible, at this time. Had it gone to trial, it may have been separated, but by that time, I would have had more money tied up in the defense than what the mediator finally determined was a “fair” amount of settlement.


In your pre inspection agreement, make sure you have a line similar to “xyz (you) and xyz (the company) are two separate entities and only xyz (the company) will be held liable for any errors in the inspection.”


Then you have the part about limiting damages to the inspection fee if it is allowable in your area.



Eric Van De Ven


Owner/Inspector


Magnum Inspections Inc.


I get paid to be suspicious when there is nothing to be suspicious about!


www.magnuminspections.com

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Joe Farsetta:


Here is the cross examination argument to use in small court against a plaintiff that sues you personally instead of your inspection company:

Inspector: " Mrs. Plaintiff...do you know my personal home telephone number? "

Plaintiff: " No. I called you at ABC Inspections "

Inspector: " Can you tell the court the name of the company on the front page of your inspection report? "

Plaintiff: " ABC Inspections. "

Inspector: "Can you tell the court the name of the entity you wrote your check out to..in other words who did you pay for this inspection? "

Plaintiff: " ABC Inspections. "

Inspector: "Thank you Mrs. Plaintiff. Your Honor at this time the defense moves to dismiss. The Plaintiff sued the wrong party. "

Worked every time when I was in the business.

Nick

ps Nobody tell Joe Ferry that I'm giving out free legal advice.


Originally Posted By: evandeven
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



That same dialouge took place between my attorney and the judge.


Didn’t work here in Florida,then again, what does!



Eric Van De Ven


Owner/Inspector


Magnum Inspections Inc.


I get paid to be suspicious when there is nothing to be suspicious about!


www.magnuminspections.com

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Eric:


Up here in PA a Judge doesn't need a law degree. Just has to take a 2-week course. Sometimes you have to beat it into their heads that you personally do not have a client. Try having your attorney ask you if you see your client (the plaintiff) in the courtroom. Then answer " I don't have any inspection clients. I am an employee and stockholder in ABC Insepctions. ABC Inspections has clients."

Nick


Originally Posted By: Mike Monstwillo
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When inquiring about e & o insurance with a local insurance agent I was told that being incorporated would not shield me or my assets in any way IF I am the one who did the inspection. Now if an EMPLOYEE is the one who allegedly committed an error you the owner would be protected. I have no idea if this is true, but I suspect it is. Just my 2 cents.



Mike Monstwillo


American Home Inspection


Cedar Lake, IN

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Mike…exacty.


You can own a sole proprietorship but not a corporation. You can only own stock in a corporation (just like you own stock in IBM) and you can be an employee of a corporation.

Employees and stockholders are not the entity that performed and charged for the inspection. The corporation (a separate entity) is responsible.

It should be difficult to win a suit against a mere stockholder. Use the NACHI agreement to be safe.

Eric is right though.. some judges do their own thing.

Nick


Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
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I suggestyou all speak to your carrier about this. I did. The person performing the inspection is liable, not the corporation. Same in real estate. The Agent’s E&O takes the hit first.


My counsel was provided by the folks at FREA, my carrier. Incorporating will NOT protect your personal assets. Unfortunate, but true. I wish it was the other way around...


Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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Joe:


What else can we do to protect our assets. Joint ownership of everything? Perhaps we should have a few attorneys draft up a "protect yourself" article for inspectors.

Nick


Originally Posted By: ismetaniuk
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This membership was a big waste of my time!



Igor


Top To Bottom Inspections


Glen Spey, NY

Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Nick,


They really can't take anything from me, all I own are the clothes on my back. ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)

If you look up the word poor in the dictionary, you will see my name is under defenition number 1.

Joe Myers


Originally Posted By: jhagarty
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



DELETED



Joseph Hagarty


HouseMaster / Main Line, PA
joseph.hagarty@housemaster.com
www.householdinspector.com

Phone: 610-399-9864
Fax : 610-399-9865

HouseMaster. Home inspections. Done right.

Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Nick,


It's a real problem. I have no answer. That's the reason it's so important to have the client sign an inspection agreement before performing the inspection. I cant understand why the corporation cant take the hit. But, your e&o is written to the individual. There are riders if the corporation hires and uses subcontractors, and the sub has no insurance. But I suspect the courts will empty the sub's coffers before coming after the corp.

Other things to be wary of... I have the type of policy that only protects me while I am insured. That means that if I cancel my policy tomorrow, the inspections I performed yeaterday are no longer covered in the event of a lawsuit. There are other types of policies, but they are supposedly more expensive. I already pay too much...

There is a local RE agency that covers its agents for E&O insurance. The deal for them is a set formula per transaction the agent pays for E&O coverage. If you sell a home valued at $400,000, some dollar amount comes out of the agent's commission (like $25). Active agents pay more through the year, while non-performing agents hardly pay at all.

I would LOVE to see NACHI offer its members a similar program. Don't know how it would work, but I would be compfortable with a "pay as you go" plan, which keeps protecting even when the inspector has moved on.

Any ideas, Nick?