My questions and I would like all opinions, what makes the ASTM standards prefered or better than the nachi comsop?
To be honest if I were a client of mine and asked to see a copy of the ASTM standard, I would read 1 paragraph and be lost. The average consumer just would not understand most of the content. However the nachi comsop is a lot easier read. If a section or two of the nachi comsop does not apply or you do not like that section, just exclude and disclose in your agreement right?
Our reports should be to the point and practical, the residential nachi sop is to the point, I think so should the commercial standards of practice.
At a glance, the astm appears to be a lengthy guideline for a very expensive commercial inspection. Anyone using it as a SOP better rethink it very quickly unless your basecharge is around 5k plus 20cents per sf.
The nachi comm sop should also be tweaked to suit the client’s needs and the amount of time/assistance you intend to invest in the inspection.
If you use a boiler plate SOP for commercial you could be buying $150k worth of hvac, parking lot and roofing upgrades real quick.
No comparison. ASTM E2018 is not a Commercial Standards of Practice… it is only mis-titled as one.
I can go on and on but I’ll give you one huge difference… almost all liability for commercial inspectors ocurrs when they try to do commercial estimates (something actually prohibited in the home inspection industry)… something ASTM requires.
7.12 Cost to remedy**The inspector is not required to provide repair estimates or opinions of costs to remedy. The inspector may offer opinions about such costs as a courtesy but the offering of these opinions is outside the scope of a commercial inspection.
Once you mention ASTM it is assumed that you are abiding by their requirements and so you become a repair estimator, not an inspector.
ASTM is a widely accepted commercial inspection standard. There is no denying this fact. We may know it aint perfect, or so clearly understandable, but it is out there, and used by engineering and accounting firms throughout the world.
That is not to say, however, that our COMSOP is not a better fit in may circumstances.
In fact, in many cases COMSOP can be considered a BEST practice.
IMO, one need not abandon one in favor of another. In fact, I teach my students both standards, and how to make them co-exist to offer the most relevent and understandable commercial SOP out there; to help correctly set the client’s expextations; to offer the most flexibility in scope of engagement, and to offer the most protection to the inspector.
The previous conversation had to do with a designation that Nick is awarding to inspectors who choose to use the NACHI SOP, exclusively. My pal, Mark, felt that this was wrong.
Others, in order to comfort him, misinformed him by telling him that he could use the ASTM standard and still be in compliance with NACHI’s Commercial SOP.
This simply is not true.
I can be in compliance with ASTM by agreeing to anything…virtually anything…and as long as my client and I agree, ASTM will accept that agreement as complying with their standard. This is not so with the NACHI Commercial Standard.
There is a difference.
As I stated, and you disagreed with, in the other thread…one can comply with the NACHI SOP and be in full compliance with the ASTM standard…but…the opposite is not true.
The previous conversation had to do with a designation that Nick is awarding to inspectors who choose to use the NACHI SOP, exclusively. My pal, Mark, felt that this was wrong.
Others, in order to comfort him, misinformed him by telling him that he could use the ASTM standard and still be in compliance with NACHI’s Commercial SOP.
This simply is not true.
I can be in compliance with ASTM by agreeing to anything…virtually anything…and as long as my client and I agree, ASTM will accept that agreement as complying with their standard. This is not so with the NACHI Commercial Standard.
There is a difference.
As I stated, and you disagreed with, in the other thread…one can comply with the NACHI SOP and be in full compliance with the ASTM standard…but…the opposite is not true.
I stress that the single most important thing for the inspector to remember is that before signing up for one, or the other, or a combination… one needs to UNDERSTAND what it all means.
I would not necessarily perform all things outlines in COMSOP, as I may not exactly agree with every clause and every section. The standard is, however, flexible enough to allow compliance through communication and agreement with the client.
Excellent! I am glad I was able to serve as a mediator and get you two to agree and clarify your positions. I know that I, for one, certainly understand this so much better now.
Ask your attorney to look at both. Most lawsuits (not just in the inspection industry, but particularly in the inspection industry, and very particularly in the commercial inspection industry) arise from the client and the inspector “NOT being on the same page.”
With ASTM, there is no page. You are not required to do anything. You are not prohibited from doing anything. Again, ASTM is NOT a standard… it is a Scope of Work Permission Form.
www.nachi.org/comsop.htm on the other hand does 3 things, 2 of which are: That it lays it out for the inspector and tells him what to do… and… it lays it out for the client and tells the client what the inspector doesn’t do. And does these 2 things in one document… and keeps both parties on “the same page.”
Jim B is correct, you could technically type “I will abide by InterNACHI’s Com Sop” within ASTM’s Scope of Work Agreement if you really wanted to.
The problem as I see it is that while the InterNachi SOP may protect the Inspector, it may not be what the client wants.
I have spent a lot of time this year trying to break into the commercial market here in Arizona. I have been working with a company here that does nothing but maintain facilities in all disciplines from architectural designs down to changing filters in A/C units.
They have shared with me the inspection reports being done by other inspectors and everyone of them contains cost estimates. All their clients want a price attached to the report.
The estimates are not hard to get. Every contractor I have contacted has been willing to give them for free.
Having said that, I still haven’t landed a inspection.
There are specific thresholds where it may or may not be required. ASTM also provides lattitude to be able to say that estimates are not included.
It also provides a clause that states that when SME’s need to be brought in to provide estimates, it is no longer a requirement.
Where costs need to be provided, understand what is expected of you. Assemble a team of professionals to assist you. Build any costs associated with your engagement into the price. ASTM also provides verbiage stating that cost estimates are not guaranteed.
Dont be afraid of the standards. Just understand what you are signing up for and comply.
The InterNACHI comsop is the result of 5+ man-years of research and development by InterNACHI in consultation with legal, commercial real estate and inspection industry luminaries. It establishes a comprehensive and, more importantly, perhaps, comprehensible - to both the client and the inspector - standard to be applied in the commercial building inspection context.
In my experience, the most common generators of client dissatisfaction in connection with building inspections are skewed and unrealistic notions on the part of the client of what exactly the inspector’s work product should entail. In the Law and Disorder seminar, there is a lengthy treatment of both the necessity and the technique of expectation management.
The InterNACHI comsop reduces the potential for an expectation gap to near zero. Consider, for example, Section 4.3:
** 4.3 Varying levels of due diligence** This standard is designed as a baseline from which the inspector and client can develop and agree to a scope of work that may deviate from this standard depending on budget, time constraints, purpose of the inspection, age of the subject property, and risk tolerance of the client. The level of due diligence should be set where the cost, in time and money, of acquiring information about the subject property will not likely exceed the value of that information. Therefore an inspection performed in accordance with this standard will not be technically exhaustive.
This section gives the client maximum latitude of discretion in determining the scope of the inspection depending on the wide variety of factors mentioned therein that may influence his decision. And it has the collateral effect of protecting the inspector from ex post facto expectation changes.
The comsop is, of course, continuingly reviewed for comprehensiveness, content, coherence and clarity.
It is a giant first step toward a major announcement that is forthcoming in regard to a nationwide lender network that we are developing to generate commercial inspections for the InterNACHI membership, as well as an exclusive insurance program - errors and omissions, general liability - to meet the requirements of these lenders.
I have only done a few commercial inspections, but my commercial inspection agreement states that we follow the InterNACHI COMSOP. I like it. The commercial inspections that I have done are smallish stuff - small offices, etc., and it seems to work nicely. Here in Texas, we follow the TREC SOP’s for residential, but TREC does not regulate commercial properties so I use NACHI’s. I’ve never had a client ask what standards I follow. I don’t think they care. They just want it inspected by someone they feel they can trust.
