To be certified, does that mean that we can not do a commercial inspection to ASTM specs?
Why I’m asking is because the only times I’ve had clients request any sop at all it’s been specifically ASTM.
If the only way I’ll win the bid is by using the ASTM specs, then I would hope that I would have the freedom to do so.
I’m not reading that option in Nick’s post, Mark.
It is the right of the certifying agency to create conditions such as this to set them apart from others.
These are the choices we make as businessmen.
You and I, because of our code of ethics, are forced to turn away the customer that wants an inspector to come and do a report that will help him break his contract. I could just as easily resign my membership and open up a “specialty” niche marketing scheme to brand myself across the country as the “deal buster”, but not as a member of a reputable HI association.
If you click on the link in Nicks post, he mentiones in that post…
“The Mark will be reserved and protected for commercial property inspectors who agree to abide by www.nachi.org/comsop.htm”
So my question to Nick is even though I agree to “abide” by Nachi’s comsop, would I still be able to do an inspection to a different sop (ie ASTM) should the client request it?
This does not seem to be an ethics question. And comparing to being asked to do an inspection to kill a deal seems to be apples and oranges.
Correct. ASTM doesn’t have a commercial SOP (although that is what they call their Scope of Work permission form).
To use the new Federal Certification mark and professional designation and enjoy the benefits that come with it (marketing, insurance discounts, etc), one will have to agree to abide by the only Commercial Standards of Practice in print: www.nachi.org/comsop.htm on every commercial inspection.
So how would you suggest working around this? Typically when someone wants you to do things in a certain way, they dictate it, not the other way around. You don’t tell your boss how things are done, the boss tell you. The customer is always right, even when they are wrong.
I think this takes you back to my original post.
We all have choices.
Going after the customer you want will preclude you from this designation. That’s all.
Jim, No disrespect, but I’m asking Nick. In this instance you are my competition, therefore your opintion of what I can or can not due with this designation does not carry any weight.
I would like Nicks take on working around this situation. Because I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I’m all for NACHI, and what it stands for, but the minute it gets in the way of my business, I’m out of here.
InterNACHI members need not use the new professional designation if they don’t want to. Abiding by www.nachi.org/comsop.htm is not a membership requirement (like abiding by www.nachi.org/sop.htm is). It is a requirement only for those who wish to enjoy the benefits of the new Federal Certification Mark. If you don’t want it, you may disregard this thread. Members need not avail themselves of everything we have going on.
Mark…before you decide on how to proceed it might be beneficial to determine how the iNACHI COMSOP differs from ASTM 2018. You might be able to abide by the iNACHI COMSOP, take advantage of the Certified Commercial Inspector designation and still provide an ASTM 2018 compliant inspection. Is there anything in the iNACHI COMSOP that prohibits using ASTM 2018? I doubt it. Is there anything in the iNACHI COMSOP that contradicts ASTM 2018? I doubt it. I and many others in licensed states have a similar issue in that I am bound, residentially, to use my state’s SOP but I must also abide by iNACHI’s SOP to meet membership requirements.
Mike, there is a huge difference here.
ASTM has a provision that basically reads that, whatever the client and inspector agree to include and exclude in an inspection is within the standard.
No doubt, the NACHI SOP complies with it, but the reverse is not true. Ours is much more structured.
The reverse does not need to be true…In order to use the Certified Commercial Inspector desgination you must abide by the iNACHI COMPSOP…I could and then exceed that by further complying with ASTM 2018, right? Also, doesn’t the iNACHI COMSOP allow for the exclusion of certain areas with the client’s consent? If not, then it should.
That’s what I was asking. I’d like to take advantage of the designation if possible, but not if it precludes me from meeting the needs and demands of a specific client.
If they are compatable, then there is no issue.
I find the idea analogous to how I manage my residential business every day. Since I live in a licensed state then my first allegiance is to the state SOP and, then second, to the iNACHI SOP. One does not exclude the other and I can’t see why that same approach cannot be used when dealing with the iNACHI COMSOP and ASTM 2018. Now, JB doesn’t agree with that but I have not seen any specifics to support his position as yet; perhaps we will later. Also, you have to remember that iNACHI leaders feel ASTM 2018 has no business being a commercial SOP or any other type of guideline for that matter and that the iNACHI COMSOP trumps everything else. Those of us in the real world know better. I don’t do enough commercial, maybe 20% of my work, for this to be an issue but I see where it could be and I’ll drill down on it if/when the time comes but I already have a pretty good idea how I will proceed.
Have you got a logo for this in the works?
Mike, if you read both…the ATSM standard and the NACHI SOP, the differences are quite obvious and their incompatability, as well.
Again, the ATSM standard allows anything. Accordingly, one can comply with it while complying with the NACHI SOP.
The NACHI SOP, however, has specific requirements that ATSM does not address. Thus, one cannot comply with the NACHI SOP in every application of ATSM.
Nick has developed the first comprehensive commercial SOP in the industry and it only needs to be used in order to become a standard. Accordingly, he is offering incentives to those who choose to use it.
It would be wrong for people who did not use it to derive its benefits as if they had, IMO. It is a choice, not a right. Sometimes we forget things like that.
We’ve been working on the insurance side of this for a couple years. The big problem for the insurance underwriters is that ASTM requires an inspector to do that which is totally abhorent… and that is to calculate repair costs. Most claims paid on commercial inspections aren’t over some defect the inspector missed but rather a cost he/she failed to correctly guestimate.
We’re going to make it pretty damn impossible for any inspector to get insurance if he/she veers off half-cocked into the estimation business (a practice that is even illegal for home inspectors in some states)… and… we’re going to provide very affordable insurance for inspectors who abide by www.nachi.org/comsop.htm and reward them for avoiding claims.
I’m going to make it an easy business decision for all.
Comments like this give me cause to be concerned about your goals and direction for this organization. I’ve been a member for a year, and in all that time, I’ve never had any doubts until now. As a matter of fact, I have been a huge proponent of yours and of NACHI’s.
To make ANYTHING difficult, let alone impossible, for an inspector to conduct his business, is contradictory to any Inspection organization. It is my sincerest hope that you misspoke, and didn’t convey the message as you truly intended.
Nick is projecting a hope that things will improve…
I think what Nick is saying is he plans on improving the quality and standards
of what a real commercial inspection should be, and all of those who are way
off in left field will stand out like a sore thumb… The insurance companies
will begin to show more favor on those who “do it right”… and begin to shun those
who are out there shooting from the hip and quoting prices based on just
a cursory inspection (which is ill advised to say the least). Insurance companies
reward quality and common sense. They shun risky behavior.
Once a better method is demonstrated, then those who are lacking will need to
adjust. I hope this helps … Please correct me if I missed anything.